Phenacogrammus sp. fantastique

[Magnum Man]

been reading up on these... sounds like they are a plain silver fish, that dresses to impress in breeding colors... is that a good understanding?? that its a "natural" fish found in nature, or in aquaria, is it some new cross breed, that brings more color into the fish??? I'm seeing pictures where they all look silver, & some pictures where it appears to be a male & female, that are both colored up... ( maybe a juvenal male & a mature male )???

 

[GaryE]

It's a naturally occuring species, as yet undescribed. That one is not easy to keep happy.

 

[Magnum Man]

So far my Blue Eye Golds have been doing great… in fact the only fish I’ve lost in that tank, was as my dominant interuptus, since I started using the RO water still no eye deer what happened with that one… as the plants continue to root out I think things will continue to stabilize…

As far as my reading, it sounds like these fish were common, but plain, at the times they would have normally been harvested, so because of their natural habitat, they were never really studied… then “someone” saw them in breeding colors, and got excited… maybe they breed in the rainy season, when they would be hard to collect, so it took several years before their secret got out???

 

[GaryE]

They come from a country that has suffered like we can barely imagine, through the Belgian colony period to the brutal dictatorship when it was Zaire, then a succession of wars and more wars. For long periods, there was no fish exporting, and the fish from there were forgotten in the hobby. There are parts of the Congo I would love to see, but it wouldn't be worth my life. Even for local people, fish collecting can be hazardous.

The Democratic Republic of Congo should be rich, but the wealth goes elsewhere and the infrastructure is awful. Delicate fish have to transported by boat in many cases. This means, for us, that there are gems in those woods, and no one goes to get them. fantastique take some travel to get to, and are way too expensive for me. As social tetras, they should be in groups of ten, and that can set you back hundreds. They have a rep as fish that can die if you cough in the next room, and the combination has scared me off.

There was a huge importation of DRC tetras here years ago, and the things I saw... I had one tetra of great beauty that lived 8 years. I had to send photos to an Ichthyologist at a major museum just to get a tentative identification of what it might be. The number of fish species that come out of that country where no one outside of their region even has a name for them is surprising. A lot of aquarists think we know the beautiful, marketable species - we have only scratched the surface.

You have decided to go where very few aquarists go - into a world of really unknown, often unbred in captivity fish. You've got more African tetras than 99.999% of aquarists in history.

No pressure!

 

[Magnum Man]

I’m honestly thinking about setting up my 250 gallon tank as an African tetra tank… ( though I always wanted a big discus tank ) the 45 gallon is already over crowded and I’m still finding more interesting fish… I currently have 3 or 4 of each species… so far, all seem to get along, but the bigger tank would allow larger groups of each… just a thought

 

[GaryE]

If you are offered an large (5-6 inch) blue silver one with magnificent fin extensions, don't do it. The thing killed everything. The downside to getting unknown stuff is you sometimes meet fish you really wish you hadn't gotten to know.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Wild fish can be fun, but sometimes not so safe to find. And I am a bit of a nudge. So one should not say a fish is a species that has not been defined. Undefined means it is not yet accepted as a true species. As one who has kept a few L-number plecos, I am very aware of this fact. L-numbers came into existence because so many new and undescribed fish were being found. Some turned out to be species while other were not.

And there is another consideration in terms of being able to make collecting trips into places where there will surely be new species discovered. And that is will it get you killed trying to do so. I got interested in wild Altums a while back. These tend to be found in specific locations which usually are not connected. Heiko Belher, who is an accepted expert on Altums, has often remarked that the biggest and prettiest Altums are found in the Atabapo river which forms some of the border between Colombia and Venezuela.

For many years the odds were pretty high that you would be shot by the Venezuelan side if the spotted you trying to collect fish from the river. This was further made risky by the fact that on the Colombian side, the FARC rebels were in control. The below was published in 2013.

And in Atabapo, another border town, “the FARC keep order and prevent theft,” while in indigenous communities “they try to set up camps and recruit young guys, who they offer work for three years,” he added.

from https://reliefweb.int/report/colombia/other-rearguard-colombia-s-farc-rebels

Fortunately, things changed since 2013 and it became possible, once again, to collect Altums from the Atabapo safely. I actually got some from that river, But they came in with disease and most of us who got them lost them all pretty fast.

My pride and joy plecos were a wild caught group of L173. It is a long story how I came to own them.

edited for typos and spelling

 

[Magnum Man]

Seriously Fish turns up nothing on these...

I found this quote from Aquarium Glaser...

"A new fashion trend in the hobby is emerging: tetras from the Congo! The region was already often in the focus of the hobby, but it was about killifishes or cichlids. The large flock of silver glittering open water species was of less interest. With the discovery of the unbelievably colorful Phenacogrammus sp. “Fantastique” (in courtship dress) a few years ago, this changed. Because also the “Fantastique” looks rather unspectacular in the normal pattern.

Now, in the wake of the “Fantastique” all kinds of other species come to us, mostly under invented names. It is then often difficult to decide which species it is. Unfortunately, the animals are quite expensive."

 

[GaryE]

They have high oxygen needs, and so are packed lightly, That takes a lot of weighty water, and air freight is really high. Unless they start being bred, like congos and the beautiful Alestopetersius caudalis yellow Congo, they'll stay too expensive to be kept in reasonable groups.

I've seen some Phenacogrammus with no good looks at all. It can be a gamble with the trade names.

You need big tanks though, as these are larger tetras. I wish they came in more often. The Europeans can get them, but North Americans don't have the same attitude towards leisure spending.

 

[Magnum Man]

Fortunately for me I have very highly oxygenated water… a 10 inch air bar just rolling and a Tidal 75, that also sucks up bubbles, into the impeller, that whips it to the filtered water… filter is nearly twice what is needed for a tank this size, and then all the plants… I think I have a good river environment… the charcoal seems to have pulled some of the color from the water… even though there is still 2 big pieces of driftwood

I think I could match the oxygen level on the 250 gallon, but would be hard pressed to
Match the flow

 

[Magnum Man]

Pretty sure this blue eye gold is the male, he has a long almost “thread fin” dorsal… the other 3 are smaller, but don’t have the extended dorsal, at least yet

 

[Magnum Man]

My male interuptus… this one is a full inch shorter that the one that mysteriously died

 

[Magnum Man]

These African fish are going to break me... I have 3 of the "Fanastique's" coming... from Dan's Fish... his comment "These are still on the small size, but a few of them have started developing nice color"

guessing the Males are coloring... may just have to set up the 250 gallon for Africans... too many interesting fish, & the problem with ordering smaller amounts, is no bets on getting half males & half females... on the yellow tails, I got one male, & 3 females... the females may color up more, as they get older, but they are pretty much just plain silver tetras right now ( that is a female yellow tail above the gold blue eye in the 2nd picture above ) ... going with the bigger tank down the road, is going to be more expensive to buy fish in larger groups, but at least with 6 or 8, you are likely to get at least a couple of each sex

 

[Magnum Man]

@GaryE ... said "If you are offered an large (5-6 inch) blue silver one with magnificent fin extensions, don't do it. The thing killed everything. The downside to getting unknown stuff is you sometimes meet fish you really wish you hadn't gotten to know."

wouldn't happen to be one of these??? this picture off of Seriously Fish, but found it as one that Dan's Fish had available before...

https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/brycinus-longipinnis/ they don't make this one sound like a mass murderer though...

 

[GaryE]

That's it.

That one is a baby. The fins get twice as long with filaments as well, til they get ripped off in a murder frenzy.