Ph Issues

[DanielKeepsFish]

my tank has been really inconsistent with pH and i fear that it is stressing out my fish.
 
It is a 20 gallon tank and i have one blue dwarf gourami.
 
My water conditions are normal except for my pH
 
Right now it is at around 5.4.
 
My tap water is at about 8.0
 
When i do a water change and put in the alkaline water with my acidic tank water, it evens out at around 7.2, however over the course of 1-2 days it drops way down to 5.4 again. I have no idea whats going on and its stressing out my fish.
Is there anything i can buy that will help?
I recently added a huge amount of plants and took out all of my plastic ones. Could that be the problem?
 
Please help!

 

[Byron]

First, we need to know the GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness also termed Alkalinity) of your tap water.  The pH is tied to these.  I would agree that a pH change of 1 degree or more that is relatively sudden is dangerous for fish.  A more gradual change would be less so, up to a point.
 
I do not recommend using any of the chemical products sold as pH adjusters; for one thing, depending upon the GH and KH they often don't work long-term, and secondly the addition of more chemicals does impact fish in various ways so the fewer the better.  There are natural ways to deal with this issue, but it needs to be based upon the initial GH/KH.
 
Live plants are part of this, but they are certainly not going to have this much of an impact.  I suspect your GH/KH are both low, in the very soft or soft range, and therefore there is nothing to buffer the pH.  I would also suspect your water authority may be adding something to raise the pH, this is common in areas where water is soft and on the acidic side naturally; I have this here in Vancouver.  It would be helpful to find this out too, from your water folks.
 
Byron.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

How are you testing your tap? Are you de/regassing it first? I prefer to put an airstone in a glass, fill it with tap and let it bubble for a while and then test it. Water often contains too much or too little co2 out of the tap which changes the pH, When its is allowed to stand overnight or agitated (as with an airstone) excess co2 can get out or a deficit of co2 will be redressed.
 
I wonder what test kit you are using for pH? Most of them stop at 6.0 or higher. API and Hagen Low range are both 6.0, Elos is 5.8, Tetra Strips are 6.2. I am not sure if you could get one in the states but I saw a french language Tetra liquid test that went down to 5.0.
 
Lowering pH by as much as you indicate is not a simple matter, you would be hard pressed to get it that low using peat, almond leaves and alder cones combined. I drop pH in one tank from 7.0 to 6.0 and it requires using ro/di water mixed and muriatic acid added. I have a digital monitor that reads my TDS temp and pH continuously. I have worked pH down to 4.2 to receive wild fish from waters with a similar pH.

 

[DanielKeepsFish]

How are you testing your tap? Are you de/regassing it first? I prefer to put an airstone in a glass, fill it with tap and let it bubble for a while and then test it. Water often contains too much or too little co2 out of the tap which changes the pH, When its is allowed to stand overnight or agitated (as with an airstone) excess co2 can get out or a deficit of co2 will be redressed.
 
I wonder what test kit you are using for pH? Most of them stop at 6.0 or higher. API and Hagen Low range are both 6.0, Elos is 5.8, Tetra Strips are 6.2. I am not sure if you could get one in the states but I saw a french language Tetra liquid test that went down to 5.0.
 
Lowering pH by as much as you indicate is not a simple matter, you would be hard pressed to get it that low using peat, almond leaves and alder cones combined. I drop pH in one tank from 7.0 to 6.0 and it requires using ro/di water mixed and muriatic acid added. I have a digital monitor that reads my TDS temp and pH continuously. I have worked pH down to 4.2 to receive wild fish from waters with a similar pH.

Im using a pond care liquid master test kit. It goes from 9.0 to 5.0

First, we need to know the GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness also termed Alkalinity) of your tap water.  The pH is tied to these.  I would agree that a pH change of 1 degree or more that is relatively sudden is dangerous for fish.  A more gradual change would be less so, up to a point.
 
I do not recommend using any of the chemical products sold as pH adjusters; for one thing, depending upon the GH and KH they often don't work long-term, and secondly the addition of more chemicals does impact fish in various ways so the fewer the better.  There are natural ways to deal with this issue, but it needs to be based upon the initial GH/KH.
 
Live plants are part of this, but they are certainly not going to have this much of an impact.  I suspect your GH/KH are both low, in the very soft or soft range, and therefore there is nothing to buffer the pH.  I would also suspect your water authority may be adding something to raise the pH, this is common in areas where water is soft and on the acidic side naturally; I have this here in Vancouver.  It would be helpful to find this out too, from your water folks.
 
Byron.

my gh is about 200.
my kh is very low at about 50.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I cannot get the Mars Fishcare/API site to load, they seem to be having issues. My gut says that wide a range may not be as accurate as kits whose range is smaller. What I do know is that when one gets test kit readings the are at either the top or bottom of the kit's range, it is very possible that the actual level is lower or higher than that reading.
 
A KH of 50 ppm is just under 3 dg which is not overly low. I am surprised to see a reading of pH 6.0 or lower have that much carbonate hardness.
 
However, I would still like to know how your tap water pH read after degassing which you did not answer. Everything starts with one's tap and that means one must have good readings for those parameters. I find it very hard to believe both your tap and tank readings are accurate, the disparity is too great. I have never seen such a huge difference reported based on just out/in gassing one's tap.
 
My hunch here is that two things are likely at work. Your tap reading is high because you just filled the vial from your tap and tested combined with something in your tank that is acting to lower pH some as well. So it would help if you could offer some information about what you have in your tank aside from fish and water. Can you lest it all from substrate to decor and anything else. Let us know what additives you are using- dechlor, fertilizers etc. - include anything you add to your water.
 
Again, under most conditions one does not see the sort of pH your are reporting in your tank and have the GH and KH reading you do. Low pH (6.5 and under) and very soft water normally go hand in hand. Your GH, at 200 ppm, is over 11 dg and that is considered medium hard water.
 
My point in all this is that there appears to be something out of whack here in terms of reported parameters and I am not sure why based on the info we have so far.

 

[DanielKeepsFish]

My tank has two lava rocks and an anubias plant on each, one big red rock in the center, and lots of other live plants that i bought a couple days ago. I also have one fake plant that i just taped to the hood so it looks like a floating plant to the gourami.
Im just using a typical "Petco approved" black gravel.
I have a t8 18'' 15 watt light bulb, and a filter that should be good for tanks up to 30 gallons.
 
I don't have an airstone, will it still degass if i just leave it out over night?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Yes- overnight works.
 
I see nothing in what you listed above that should lower your pH. I would suggest you take a sample of your water ( a few ounces) to your local store and ask them to test the pH for you. Collect the water from the mid-level of the tank, not from the surface. Put it into a very clean jar and bring it in. The idea is to avoid any contamination that can becaused by water  surface things or from the container.
 
Hopefully, the will use a different test kit and you can check your results vs theirs. I am hoping what happens is they get a higher reading

 

[DanielKeepsFish]

my fish died.
 
 I woke up and he was on the bottom of the tank and dead.
 
I checked the ph ad it was the same, no ammonia or nitrites, nitrates are at 20ppm
 
temperature was the same as last night, and he wasn't acting weird before. I looked on his body and he had little white fluffs on his head and fins. It could be the ick but he didn't show any signs of it before hand