Ph Going Crazy

[owen.h.lewis]

Hi all,
Below is a post i made the other week:

Hi all,
Recently i have noticed that my PH is quite low, and i was wondering if it is due to the inclusion of imported mangrove root wood to my tank. I have prepared the wood by boiling it for some time, along with taking it into the shower with me (dedication) and soaking it in water.

My tank is a 145 litre setup and has the following fish/plants etc -

3 x small plattys
4 x small guppies
2 x spotted corys
2 x angelfish
4 x neon tetra's
2 x glo light tetra's

I have got a bunch of amazon sword planted, along with some hairgrass, and also another bristly plant which i am unaware of the name.

I have an inbuilt filter that came with the tank, along with the lighting (gets 12 hours of light a day), and also a side mounted airpump which seems to act as a filter also (has a sponge like unit that is in the tank).

My tap water parameters is as follows:

Ph: 6.8
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
GH Degree: 1 degree

My tank pre wood was as follows:

Ph: 6.5 - 6.6
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: less than 5
GH Degree: 4 Degree

Today (one and half weeks after adding wood) my results were:

Ph: 6.0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: less than 5
GH Degree: 5 degree

I am worried about the low PH and wondered if this was due to the inclusion of the wood. Do i just need to do a water change and then it should hopefully hover around the 6.5 mark where it's ideally been at.

Any help would be great.

Cheers.




Ok so further to this i added a small amount of Ph up, and my ph was raised to 6.4 (tested within a few hours after addition) which is fine, although i would prefer it to be around 6.8 - 7.0.

Anyways, I completed a large water change, the first since introducing my wood, and then 2 days later tested my parameters and ph had risen to 7.4 + (Blue reading)

I would like to know what could be the possible causes? Does ph up take longer time to have an affect on the water? Also I have since added some ph down, just to try and get it around the neutral mark before i work out what's happening in my tank.

Originally i would just do a water change, as my ph was fine out of the tap, and that was that, but since adding the wood, my ph was dropping, i really dont want to keep adding ph up/down and would like to know what i can do, so that i can just do my water changes, and not have to worry as much about the ph varying.

Thanks in advance.

 

[fatheadminnow]

A pH of 8.4 is optimal for bacterial growth in your filter, so a pH of 7.4 is REALLY good.

I would try to stay above 7.0, just because it is getting down there a little bit.

At 6.6, the bacteria that process Ammonia and Nitrite start to significantly slow down, and around 6.4 and below and you pretty much say that your bacteria in your filter habve gone completely dormant. Which is not good.

Try to get a KH test kit, as I bet your KH is really low.

A low KH is going to allow your pH jump all over the place.

There are ways to raise the KH. With a higher KH, say of 4 and up, your pH is going to be pretty solid and not move around.

So, try to get a KH test kit to test for KH.

Also, a pH of 6.8 from the tap is not that good, as you are going to have VERY slow bacteria growth in your filter.

-FHM

 

[CKutz]

adding limestone or a little crushed coral will help raise your ph

adding peat moss or driftwood will lower your ph

if your tap is 6.8, and you add wood and it drops, then add a small limestone, or a small stocking full of crushed coral (or if you like the look add it to your substrate, but adding a lot will really raise your ph)..they might balance it back out to around 7.

try and avoid ph up and ph down. it sounds like you already don't like using them, but the reason people don't suggest it is because the chemicals can run out or meet their capacity or something...this leads to the ph swinging back around.

also..if you're going to be adding 6.8 ph tap water to your tank, it might be useful to reverse siphon it into the tank versus dumping the bucket in (if you even do that). dumping a bucket can make an abrupt change, which can cause ph or temperature shock to fish.

 

[LionessN3cubs]

adding limestone or a little crushed coral will help raise your ph

adding peat moss or driftwood will lower your ph

if your tap is 6.8, and you add wood and it drops, then add a small limestone, or a small stocking full of crushed coral (or if you like the look add it to your substrate, but adding a lot will really raise your ph)..they might balance it back out to around 7.

try and avoid ph up and ph down. it sounds like you already don't like using them, but the reason people don't suggest it is because the chemicals can run out or meet their capacity or something...this leads to the ph swinging back around.

also..if you're going to be adding 6.8 ph tap water to your tank, it might be useful to reverse siphon it into the tank versus dumping the bucket in (if you even do that). dumping a bucket can make an abrupt change, which can cause ph or temperature shock to fish.

I'm no expert, just a newbie with the same problem.

Last year when I cycled, I found that I had 0 KH from my tap water. During CYCLING I had to add baking soda to keep the PH from crashing. Like an idiot I forgot about this issue once I put fish in the tank...so almost every time I did a water change for a year, I lost fish due to PH shock.

Now that all the fish in the tank died, and I still hadn't remembered about the PH issue (have 3 kids and mush for brains what can I say?) I decided to redo everything, including my cycle. That's when I remembered about the PH issue.

To fix the problem I've added boiled seashells to the tank....since baking soda isn't a good fix when there are fish in the tank. My KH is now up to 4 and my PH has remained a stable 7.6. The seashells (someone suggested crushed coral but I had seashells laying around) slowly leach the calcium they're made from into the tank water...raising the PH and keeping it stable.

 

[waterdrop]

adding limestone or a little crushed coral will help raise your ph

adding peat moss or driftwood will lower your ph

if your tap is 6.8, and you add wood and it drops, then add a small limestone, or a small stocking full of crushed coral (or if you like the look add it to your substrate, but adding a lot will really raise your ph)..they might balance it back out to around 7.

try and avoid ph up and ph down. it sounds like you already don't like using them, but the reason people don't suggest it is because the chemicals can run out or meet their capacity or something...this leads to the ph swinging back around.

also..if you're going to be adding 6.8 ph tap water to your tank, it might be useful to reverse siphon it into the tank versus dumping the bucket in (if you even do that). dumping a bucket can make an abrupt change, which can cause ph or temperature shock to fish.

I'm no expert, just a newbie with the same problem.

Last year when I cycled, I found that I had 0 KH from my tap water. During CYCLING I had to add baking soda to keep the PH from crashing. Like an idiot I forgot about this issue once I put fish in the tank...so almost every time I did a water change for a year, I lost fish due to PH shock.

Now that all the fish in the tank died, and I still hadn't remembered about the PH issue (have 3 kids and mush for brains what can I say?) I decided to redo everything, including my cycle. That's when I remembered about the PH issue.

To fix the problem I've added boiled seashells to the tank....since baking soda isn't a good fix when there are fish in the tank. My KH is now up to 4 and my PH has remained a stable 7.6. The seashells (someone suggested crushed coral but I had seashells laying around) slowly leach the calcium they're made from into the tank water...raising the PH and keeping it stable.

LOL, really enjoyed this post Lioness! I always remembered a mystery concerning your situation, leaving me concerned we had never uncovered the souce of the problem. I never knew you had forgotten about your pH problem when you switched over from your fishless cycling to having fish.

The term "crushed coral" is a bit of a misnomer as lots of the "crushed stuff" you get is shells, in addition to pieces of broken coral. Its all the same stuff of course and kinda cool to think about, like a sort of geological cycle. Marine animals build shells and other structures out of calcite, one of the crystal forms of Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) and the zillions of shells left on the ocean floor over the eons form major geological layers with lots of calcite content, including limestone. So what goes around, comes around. CaCO3 in the ocean water goes into shells, goes into rocks, winds up in freshwater tanks and can slowly dissolve back into the water to be a factor in our tank! (sorry, didn't mean to sound "lecturey", just thought it was cool)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[drobbyb]

So many of these soft water issues here lately! I think that you could definately benefit from adding "crushed coral." Depending on what type of filter you have, you might be able to place a small nylon bag with a handfull of the crushed coral. If that dosen't work you can just hang the nylon bag in a fast moving area of the tank. What this will do is prevent a pH crash. There is a catch though. If you go too long without a large waterchange, you will sumbit yout fish to pH shock, killing them. It's a big decision for your tank.

 

[CKutz]

what do you mean if you don't change the water for awhile there will be ph shock..are you saying that by having the coral/seashells in it just keeps raising your ph gradually till you do a water change, at which point it would be brought back down, and start climbing again?
not questioning, just curious. would hate to miss one one week then lose my fish cause of that.
thanks

edit:
yea i noticed a lot of these ph questions lately also. starting to think it a bit odd.

 

[Dave Spencer]

So many of these soft water issues here lately!

I would say it is hitting the point of paranoia. This is my tank when I first set it up last September.

I add CO2 to greater than 30ppm, which drives the pH down about 1 point. It is full of wood, driving the pH down. I add 5ppm KNO3, and 1ppm KH2PO4 daily, which are acidic compounds driving down the pH.

There is no crushed coral within a mile of this tank.

Here is a recent pic. The fish are Honey gouramis, Copper harlequins and rasbora maculata.

This tank was never cycled due to it being a planted tank and yet, according to this forum, my filter should be totally devoid of any bacteria, and my fish should be dead from my “crashing” pH. All I can say is, all the occupants are very healthy and active.

The water is very soft at 2dKH.

Could somebody please tell me how this tank continues to function? Why isn`t everything dead?

I think one factor is that I have never tested this tank`s water parameters, therefore I am not being fed inaccurate information from test kits.

It seems to me that there is a touch of medical student syndrome, whereby, once they start reading about diseases and symptoms, all those little sniffles they had sound like Ebola etc……

Dave.

 

[CKutz]

you might be right that people often get too worried about things that will sort themsevles out and be fine..
but i've also read posts on here from people with ph going crazy and they couldn't get a handle on it and lost their fish.

and we always tell people it is better to prevent a problem, then to have to deal with a problem later..so people want to get their ph stabalized before it goes absolutely nuts, and they lose their fish.

 

[drobbyb]

The point about not letting go for too long is true. Your pH will gradually go up, approximately 1.0 pH value. It has been said that a pH change of only .2 will stress fish. If you move them from alkaline to acid, pH shock will occur. It's a fact.

 

[fatheadminnow]

what do you mean if you don't change the water for awhile there will be ph shock..are you saying that by having the coral/seashells in it just keeps raising your ph gradually till you do a water change, at which point it would be brought back down, and start climbing again?
not questioning, just curious. would hate to miss one one week then lose my fish cause of that.
thanks

edit:
yea i noticed a lot of these ph questions lately also. starting to think it a bit odd.

The pH in the tank will be higher because of the addition of Crushed Coral or other things.

But the pH of the tap water is going to be very low compared to the tanks pH.

So if you go along time without changing the tanks water, you are going to have to do a larger water change because you have waited so long to do the water change.

Therefore, you are going to expose the fish to a greater amount of new water with a lower pH because the tap waters pH is lower than the tanks.

-FHM

 

[Dave Spencer]

KH is more important than pH, and it is this that will harm their fish more.

What about flash floods in all these far off places that our fish come from? I bet some fish are in small pools that get washed away by floods of water at a very different pH to what they were recently languishing in.

People overplay the importance of pH in regards to their fish, and KH in regards to their pH. There are, obviously, some exceptions....

I just wish I had a good source of crushed coral, I could make a killing.

Dave.

 

[drobbyb]

KH is more important than pH, and it is this that will harm their fish more.

What about flash floods in all these far off places that our fish come from? I bet some fish are in small pools that get washed away by floods of water at a very different pH to what they were recently languishing in.

People overplay the importance of pH in regards to their fish, and KH in regards to their pH. There are, obviously, some exceptions....

I just wish I had a good source of crushed coral, I could make a killing.

Dave.

Ok Dave. If you say so. :ats on back::

 

[Dave Spencer]

Ok Dave. If you say so. :ats on back::

Oh dear, a patronising comment with nothing more to add to the thread.

Soft water tanks work fine, irrespective of what is strongly suggested on this forum.

Dave.

 

[drobbyb]

Soft water tanks work fine, irrespective of what is strongly suggested on this forum.

Dave.

In your limited experience. I know what happens to my tanks if I run them without my crushed coral.