Ph Crash?

[jaclynl]

I have a 10gal tank with a regular gravel vacuum (one that you have to start in some manner, like sucking on the hose!), I think I might go out and buy a self starting one. I think I stopped the water change just because there was water everywhere and I needed to clean it up and was going to see if it was enough.

I performed another large water change last night and topped up my ammonia again, the KH was reading 5 and pH was 8.0 after the change. I'll test after 12 hours have passed to see what has happened.

-Jaclyn

 

[waterdrop]

OK, sounds like the latest water change has improved things as we expected?

It sounds like your bucket overflowed during the water change? With a 10g, using a bucket procedure is probably the most reasonable, but I'll mention that what I was thinking about were the "Python" type products that a lot of us use where you, for example, run the siphon outlet hose all the way back to a bathroom tub. Then, for the refill, you attach this same long hose to an adapter that attaches to a sink faucet and simply refill the tank as if it had a faucet up over it except you have to run back to the faucet to turn it off. (Make sense?) Probably overkill for you but worth a mention.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[jaclynl]

Well actually I used a bucket that was small and my tank is quite high so the hose does not reach the bucket on the floor, so I was trying to hold the bucket, the hose in the bucket and the portion in the tank all at the same time, the hose came out of the bucket and sprayed all over!

I might have to look at this thing you mention....do you just fill up from the tap after you make sure the temp is right? How do you dechlorinate? It would certainly make emptying easier.

Jaclyn

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, the "Python" type setups have a little "T-valve" at the faucet so that you could feel the temperature mix and roughly match it with your hand to a cup of tank water and then flip the little valve switch sending it on to the aquarium that might be down the hall. All the different parts can be had to customize one of these devices. There are different lengths of clear hose to go down the hall, there are different adapters for different bathroom and kitchen faucet makes and models and there are different gravel-cleaning cylinders for different size tanks that need their gravel cleaned.

I'm not saying these would be available to you or that you'd choose these particular products, just that here's the idea of the things. I think I found the web site:

Python Site

There are also members who have made homemade versions of parts of this type system.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[jaclynl]

Today I get home....KH down to 2dH again, so I did another 90% change.

Readings now are:
KH = 4.5dH
pH = 8.2 - 8.4
Ammonia: 0.25ppm (i added ammonia 24 hours ago, and I diluted the heck out of the tank. My ammonia was processing at 12h before I did my first water change...what's wrong with my cycle??)
Nitrites = 5+ ppm (even after the 90% change)
Nitrates = 5ppm

Seems like my cycle has stopped working, ammonia is not being processed as fast. What could be wrong?

 

[waterdrop]

Hey! Nothing has stopped working. You're just being too precise!! Happens all the time to beginners. You just have to ignore little things that don't seem to make sense and just keep adding the right amount of ammonia at the right time and being patient. At the stage where you are the tank gets kind of crazy with the tons of nitrites in there making it more acid and driving the pH down. If it gets too much with water changes we may have to talk to you about adding baking soda to buffer the water more.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[jaclynl]

Thank you!

I thought once I had a good Abac colony they would keep processing at the same speed so I got worried.

I just topped up the tank to 5ppm ammonia (well added my regular daily amount, might be a little higher since I still had .25ppm).

I'll check everything again in 24 hours.

Thanks, Jaclyn

 

[waterdrop]

The thing that throws people is that they get to thinking they're measuring the "colony", but they're not, its just a substance in the water that gets measured and its the thing that bounces around a lot and is hard to interpret. Best to grin at it, write down the numbers and keep carefully forging ahead. If there's something seriously wrong it will continue to show up and we'll deal with it.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[jaclynl]

Looks like two 90% water changes in 2 days have not helped my situation. KH and pH still dropping

Current stats (24 hours after 90% water change and topping up ammonia to 5ppm)
KH - 3dh
pH - 7.8-8.0
Ammonia - oppm
Nitites - 5+ ppm
Nitrates - 80ppm

Where should I go from here?

 

[waterdrop]

Looks like two 90% water changes in 2 days have not helped my situation. KH and pH still dropping

Current stats (24 hours after 90% water change and topping up ammonia to 5ppm)
KH - 3dh
pH - 7.8-8.0
Ammonia - oppm
Nitites - 5+ ppm
Nitrates - 80ppm

Where should I go from here?

Hi jaclynl,

I'm confused a little. Most cyclers present a lot more data than this and much of that missing data would be needed to diagnose the situation. Mostly its the timeline, the days both in an absolute sense and then also if we know the turning points (how long it took to get ammonia dropping to zero in 24 hours is sort of the first "phase", the "nitrite spike"period is the beginning of the second "phase" of time) between phases that gives us a starting point for diagnoses.

Your pH seems fine and although your nitrates are significant, they are not enough to likely be causing problems. When you do a water change during fishless cycling your goal is to get nitrites and nitrates down. It does look like yours went right back up within 24 hours after these water changes, which just says your A-Bacs are very, very productive and you've not got near enough N-Bacs yet. After you do a water change you can always expect a day or two before any improved N-Bac processing would show improvement in my experience. And the overall "nitrite spike" period can take several weeks for many people, so I'm wondering if you are just expecting things to happen faster than they are. Although we like to talk about the fast 3 week ones, many fishless cycles in reality take a couple of months.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[jaclynl]

Hi..no I'm not concerned with mhycycle right now. I know that will take time...

I'm concerned with the KH and pH. They are fine now but falling rapidly again, I'm worried my water changes have not helped me increase buffering capacity enough and I'm headed for another pH dive in the next few days.

My ammonia is dropping to 0ppm in 24 hours( and had been for about 3 weeks now) but my nitrites are still sky high, I am patient (I thought they were zero once last week but it must have been a blip because I can't get the same result again since).

Or are you saying the KH and pH is not a big problem right now?

 

[waterdrop]

Well, the pH and KH situation is about the same as when the tread started. You're managing to stay in ranges that should be fine for the cycle (pretty high pH still and some KH stll there.) If you want to use some bicarb to stabilize your situation more then here's how to do it. What you do is add baking soda (this is the standard stuff usually found in your kitchen, its baking soda, not baking powder.) Since your pH is pretty nicely up there, it would seem that one teaspoon per 50L of water would be a nice starting point and then check later to see if your KH has gone up some. That amount (1t/50L) is the type of dose that will usually raise KH but without much upward pressure on pH, so you'll get some more buffering and can worry less about a pH crash.

Just FYI, the thing of doing the bicarb will go out with the big water change at the end of fishless cycling and the best thing after that is to just use your regular tap water. There is less acid being produced after the fishless cycle is over and less downward pressure on pH. If you turned out to want very heavy fish loads and were still having trouble with KH and pH after getting fish and going for a while, the method then would be to use a bag of crushed coral in your filter and the members could help you with that if that circumstance arose.

~~waterdrop~~