Pet Store Giving Improper Tank Sizes On Labels?

[Inchyally]

This was something I was wondering about. The store Petsmart has all of their fish labeled. That may sound like a good thing, but while reading the sizes required for the fish, they were so off! This is a professional store here, I was wondering why they would trick customers. Here are examples I remember...

Betta - 1/4 Gal (that is like... a half a cup of water )
Oscar - 30gal
Common Pleco - 10 gal
Iridescent Shark - 20gal (also said 'beginner fish'...)

However, in tiny letters next to the tank size, it has the adult size, something most people would miss.

I don't understand why they would tell people how to improperly house their fish.

Have you seen any pet stores do this?

 

[mbsqw1d]

££££££!!! petsathome (UK) have been quite good when selling fish. They'll ask lots of questions about your tank and its inhabitants. Eg I was after a pleco but he advised me against it based on the fact that it would out grow my tank. I suppose these pet shops that don't just deal with fish may not have someone specialized for that department working there. but yeah. £££££ is on there mind.

 

[Curiosity101]

They may do it because they...
Don't care
Don't know
Know most people wont have tanks big enough for these fish so why tell them when they have such a large profit margin
Fish in unsuitable tanks mean illness and death which means more money for them

Pick one or more of the above and you probably have your answer...
I do totally agree though...I don't understand why fish shops don't just give good advice. They may not be able to make as much on fish, but in the long run they'll make much more on returning customers buying dry goods etc.
Plus word of mouth means more customers and a better business anyways...it just makes sense.

I also don't get why fish shops haven't cottoned onto the idea of marketing fishless cycling kits. The first person to patent it could make a fortune!

 

[Inchyally]

They may do it because they...
Don't care
Don't know
Know most people wont have tanks big enough for these fish so why tell them when they have such a large profit margin
Fish in unsuitable tanks mean illness and death which means more money for them

Pick one or more of the above and you probably have your answer...
I do totally agree though...I don't understand why fish shops don't just give good advice. They may not be able to make as much on fish, but in the long run they'll make much more on returning customers buying dry goods etc.
Plus word of mouth means more customers and a better business anyways...it just makes sense.

I also don't get why fish shops haven't cottoned onto the idea of marketing fishless cycling kits. The first person to patent it could make a fortune!

Yeah, it is sad, putting money before the life of a, or many, living beings. Plus, fake products (Goldfish kits - 1gal plastic containers with hoods and no filter, also fish bowls) = more sales, more deaths, more re=purchases.

But you have a good uidea with the fishless cycling kit idea, you should ho ahead with it.

 

[Curiosity101]

If I owned a fish shop I would've!

 

[yvez9]

at the end of the day, the problem these stores face are customers.
let's face it, fishkeepers that actually take the time to research and learn how to properly care for a fish are a small minority.
most people buy fish because it's "easy" to care for them. if shops start telling them they need to fishless cycle before actually putting fish in a tank, the customer will walk away because he doesn't want to hear about measuring ammonia and whatever. he'll go to the next shop who'll tell them what they want to hear and buy there. when the fish die, if they do die, they'll go back to that store and blame them, get a few free fish and voila, you've made a happy camper.

a similar situation would be buying a computer from an electronics store. most people will walk in best buy and purchase whatever the salesperson says they need. if that person were to sit down and research, they would learn that building a pc themselves is usually cheaper and better quality. but how many people actually do this?

a minority of specialized pet stores will gladly help the customers who know what they're doing. the majority of stores will tell people what they want to hear to make a sale. it's offer and demand. if more people would actualy educate themselves on fishkeeping, stores like petco would stop selling fish, or change their way of doing things.

 

[ZoddyZod]

I also don't get why fish shops haven't cottoned onto the idea of marketing fishless cycling kits.

because they are probably quite a scary proposition to people just starting out. And those with the knowledge dont need them.

Some people will find the ammonia/nitrogen/bacteria lesson interesting, but I'd wager that the majority may very well be put off by what seems like hard work and it could sound very confusing.

Person walks into lfs on a whim.
Person gets scientific lecture about what he needs to do and lengthy instuctions.
Person walks out of shop, confused, and has second thoughts.
Customer lost.

it's all about the ££££ at the end of the day. When you buy a car the salesman is not going to go into the details of oil changes/services/topping up brake fluid etc. It's the same principal........sadly.

 

[Inchyally]

at the end of the day, the problem these stores face are customers.
let's face it, fishkeepers that actually take the time to research and learn how to properly care for a fish are a small minority.
most people buy fish because it's "easy" to care for them. if shops start telling them they need to fishless cycle before actually putting fish in a tank, the customer will walk away because he doesn't want to hear about measuring ammonia and whatever. he'll go to the next shop who'll tell them what they want to hear and buy there. when the fish die, if they do die, they'll go back to that store and blame them, get a few free fish and voila, you've made a happy camper.

a similar situation would be buying a computer from an electronics store. most people will walk in best buy and purchase whatever the salesperson says they need. if that person were to sit down and research, they would learn that building a pc themselves is usually cheaper and better quality. but how many people actually do this?

a minority of specialized pet stores will gladly help the customers who know what they're doing. the majority of stores will tell people what they want to hear to make a sale. it's offer and demand. if more people would actualy educate themselves on fishkeeping, stores like petco would stop selling fish, or change their way of doing things.

I see what you mean. But what I gave an example opf is the store taking advantage of the customer not doing that research, which is pretty wrong... every once in awhile, I do see a good staff member at a store, I have even seen them at Petsmart/Petco, but it still doesn't give the majority the right to lie to and take advantage of their customers. It would be great if people did research, I did with my second tank ( I didn't with my fish because I just went by the old way my parents took care of their tank in the 70s, when cycling was less known) but most don't. That is a sad fact, but I don't think stores should take advantage of that for profit, especially when living things are involved...

 

[Curiosity101]

Ah but the thing with the fishless cycling kit is that it could be made for 'dummies'. You could say 'Here' are the instructions (and have like a 10 step list that you do every day) and then have information sheets that you 'can' read if you'd like to know the ins and outs.

Cause you don't need to know anything about the nitrogen cycle to do a fishless cycled. All you need to know is that when you add 'X Amount' of the liquid per 10l of water you get a level of X ammonia.
You test once a day and top up the ammonia until roughly week 6-8 when you should be seeing a clear test result.

You don't even have to call the ammonia ammonia. You could call it 'Cycling liquid'
And you could call the test kits 'Test #1' (Ammonia), 'Test #2' (Nitrites), and then pH Tester.

So it'd go something like...

On the first day...
Add 10ml of the cycling liquid for each 10l of water. Now leave for 24 hours.

Each day after test the water with Test #1, it needs to be topped up to give a level of 5.
You must add 2ml per 10l of water to give level increase of 1.
So if you have a 40l tank and the level was 3 when you tested you would need to add 16ml.

After Test #1 has shown 0 for a couple of days
Start testing with Test #2 aswell as Test #1.
And start adding the cycling liquid twice a day (as close to 12 hours apart as possible)

Do this daily until both Test #1 and Test #2 both say 0 after you've done your second test of the day.

As soon as both tests say 0 after the second test. Do an 80% water change and go buy some fish!

You'd also need an FAQ sheet that mentioned cycles are sometimes very slow, and that you can try doing a 50% water change to get things going again etc etc.
That took me 15mins to type up...and someone actually making this for the 'average' fish person could probably do a much better job that me. But I think they're pretty simple instruction to follow...and no scary words! Like ammonia and Liquid Test Kit...

 

[ZoddyZod]

but I don't think stores should take advantage of that for profit, especially when living things are involved...

agree with you fully. However it's a moral question, if the owner/management of a store is only interested in the cash, then there is no LEGAL responsibility to tell the customer about the possible future issues of big fish in a small tank.

If you buy a cot, the seller is under no obligation to tell you that your child will outgrow it. Sounds silly, but it's the same principle.

 

[Inchyally]

Ah but the thing with the fishless cycling kit is that it could be made for 'dummies'. You could say 'Here' are the instructions (and have like a 10 step list that you do every day) and then have information sheets that you 'can' read if you'd like to know the ins and outs.

Cause you don't need to know anything about the nitrogen cycle to do a fishless cycled. All you need to know is that when you add 'X Amount' of the liquid per 10l of water you get a level of X ammonia.
You test once a day and top up the ammonia until roughly week 6-8 when you should be seeing a clear test result.

You don't even have to call the ammonia ammonia. You could call it 'Cycling liquid'
And you could call the test kits 'Test #1' (Ammonia), 'Test #2' (Nitrites), and then pH Tester.

So it'd go something like...

On the first day...
Add 10ml of the cycling liquid for each 10l of water. Now leave for 24 hours.

Each day after test the water with Test #1, it needs to be topped up to give a level of 5.
You must add 2ml per 10l of water to give level increase of 1.
So if you have a 40l tank and the level was 3 when you tested you would need to add 16ml.

After Test #1 has shown 0 for a couple of days
Start testing with Test #2 aswell as Test #1.
And start adding the cycling liquid twice a day (as close to 12 hours apart as possible)

Do this daily until both Test #1 and Test #2 both say 0 after you've done your second test of the day.

As soon as both tests say 0 after the second test. Do an 80% water change and go buy some fish!

You'd also need an FAQ sheet that mentioned cycles are sometimes very slow, and that you can try doing a 50% water change to get things going again etc etc.
That took me 15mins to type up...and someone actually making this for the 'average' fish person could probably do a much better job that me. But I think they're pretty simple instruction to follow...and no scary words! Like ammonia and Liquid Test Kit...

Looks good. I think it would sell. But I think you would have to mention ammonia somewhere on the package. It is a poison that can cause severe burns if you get it on there skin, plus poisonous to drink (though I doubt anyone would drink it...) so I think you would legally have to put it on there.

 

[Curiosity101]

You'd have to put it on the bottles yeah. But that shouldn't put anyone off should it..

All I was thinking was, you could easily write up a very simple guide.
And then the shops could say 'You can either take some fish today, or you could buy this kit which will make your water much safer for your fish. It'll mean you're much less likely to have any fish deaths or illnesses'

They don't need to go into mass details. And I'm not suggesting that they refuse to let people do fish-in cycles. But in this situation they should just slip a good helpsheet into the persons bag. Don't need to make a big deal about it. And the people either will or wont read it.

 

[ZoddyZod]

Ah but the thing with the fishless cycling kit is that it could be made for 'dummies'.

I would've loved for this sort of thing to have been available to me, but even with a 'dummy proof' set of instructions you are still going to scare off a considerable amount custom.

I think it's got a place for it in the market, but will the average lfs make it the first thing they sell to potential customers? Probably not due to the 'scare' factor.

Think about buying a dog. How many people research that? Most will think "ok, feed and walk twice a day" (if they aren't completely stupid) and many will view fish the same way (without the walks!). They simply wont consider water parameters before diving nose first into the hobby. Also consider that the tank set up is probably the most expensive and FIRST thing that they'll buy. Get a customer to buy that and you've probably got the majority of the cash that they'll spend on the hobby out of them already.

And then the shops could say 'You can either take some fish today, or you could buy this kit which will make your water much safer for your fish. It'll mean you're much less likely to have any fish deaths or illnesses'

to be fair that would be a very simple way of putting it to new customers and would certainly be more responsible on their part.

let them dig through the instructions AFTER they have forked out for £300 worth of hardware

 

[Curiosity101]

Well if people don't wanna read it then they don't have to. With my approach they aren't 'scared off' cause you don't market it as anything to do with water composition...toxins...etc etc.

This will make your tank safer for fish. Simples (as that meerkat on TV would say. Hehe)

And if they aren't interested just slip a fish-in cycling guide into there bag.

No one loses out on money in the long run as customers appreciate honesty and a good service.
They then spread the word and more people come to the store...

Take it you agree with me then ZoddyZod? Now you've seen my fantabulous marketing stratedgy? Lol.

 

[ZoddyZod]

Take it you agree with me then ZoddyZod? Now you've seen my fantabulous marketing stratedgy? Lol.

I do like the "these are your two options" approach. Nice and gentle intro to what is required....especially if placed in the bag at the same time as the receipt for the tank