P. Subocellatus Spawn

[Fish Fanatic34]

Very exited today as I noticed 5 little subocellatus babies swimming with the parents. A small amount although still cool for the first spawn, just wanted to get some input on when it is ok to pull the fry from the parents?

 

[GaryE]

I never pulled fry before 3 weeks. Broodcare is an instinct, but just like us, having models and triggers helps them become better parents as they mature. I find wild caught parents, even young ones with a first brood, are better at parenting than ones immediately taken from the parents.

It's playing the long game...

If you have five, there have been losses though. First broods tend to be small, but more like 15.

 

[Colin_T]

You leave baby cichlids with the parents until the parents no longer care for them. The babies will start to explore over the next few weeks but they come back to the nest at night or whenever the parents call them. When the babies stop going back to the nest, that's when you can remove them. It's generally around 4 weeks old but sometimes older.

 

[GaryE]

With Pelvicachromis and SA Apistogramma, the broodcare is very tight. When the parents are ready to spawn again, they shoo the juvies away, usually at about 4 weeks. But if the tank isn't large, the juvies can't leave. The adults then consider them to be fry predators in waiting, and rapidly kill them. I have mistimed broods of 40, and had them wiped out in one night.

I have had fry grow to adulthood with the parents in one metre, 210 litre plant jungle tanks, but never in anything smaller. My sample size for learning this has been 15-20 different pairs from different Pelvicachromis mostly breeding from 1 to 8 times each, and I don't know how many Apistogramma. There's a fine line. You want them exposed to parental care, but unless your tank is huge, you can leave it too long.

There was a hobbyist, but serious hobbyist experiment done 30 years ago that suggested 26 degrees from pre-spawning a month gave you the best shot at an even sex ratio. P. subocellatus is notorious for single sex broods. I only bred them a few times, and always had a lot of females.