On The 7th Day........i'm Thinking Of Throwing In The Towel

[fishman3]

I cant believe what has happened today................!

after various mishaps during my 'humane' fishless cycle i finally got to the finish line (or so i thought) i started my qualification week last monday and have been cycling 5ppm of ammonia and nitrites successfully in less than 12 hours for 6 days. On the 7th day i have found that some 17 hours after adding last nights ammonia my ammonia readings are 0 but my nitrite reading was 1ppm.

I have done a 40% water change and am still showing about 0.5ppm of nitrites.

the question is simple................WHAT IS GOING ON NOW....?

readings at moment

pH 7.0 - 7.2
temp 25 (turned down to get ready for fish later today or so i thought)
ammonia 0
nitrites ~0.5ppm
nitrates ~10-15ppm (after 40% water change)
water kh around 7

the last 6 days readings


23/2 5ml of ammonia solution 9.5% w/w added 8pm
24/2 8am
ph 7.2
NH3 0
N02 0
N03 20

24/2 5ml of ammonia solution 9.5% w/w added 8pm
25/2 8am
ph 7.0
NH3 0
N02 0
N03 not tested

25/2 added some api up solution to increase pH, 5ml of ammonia solution 9.5% w/w added 8pm
26/2 8am
ph 7.2
NH3 0
N02 0
N03 80+

26/2 5ml of ammonia solution 9.5% w/w added 8pm
27/2 8am
ph 7.5
NH3 0
N02 0
N03 not tested

27/2 5ml of ammonia solution 9.5% w/w added 8pm
28/2 8am - 75-80% water change with dechlorinator (also added water from kettle so as not to drop temp to much during change - was told this was ok on here)
ph 6.8
NH3 0
N02 0
N03 10

28/2 5ml of ammonia solution 9.5% w/w added 8pm
1/3 8am
ph 7.2
NH3 0
N02 0
N03 not tested

help please guys i'm starting to drown here..............................

 

[waterdrop]

You're having a "BLIP"! Its the reason for the "qualifying week"!

Its so much better to be experiencing this now than if you had jumped the gun and already introduced your new fish. Its no big deal. You just settle back and continue fishless cycling and recording your stats carefully and you'll soon get a qualifying week that truly "qualifies!"

~~waterdrop~~

 

[waterdrop]

Of course, I'm assuming you didn't have any mishaps you aren't telling us about, right?

By the way, often a small water change like 40% will not have a very full effect on nitrates. There is basically no meaning to doing anything less than a 90% water change when you do a water change during fishless cycling, unless it has something to do with the convenience of not turning your filter off or such. Doing changes like 40% are only useful when you have fish and don't want to shock them as much. For resetting parameters for bacteria growth and easier fishless test readings, 90% is the way to go.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[fatheadminnow]

Agreed with WD.

On the last thread you had, I mentioned that in the final week it is not uncommon to have a slight spike in nitrite in your final week.

Like WD said, that is why after you "think" you are done, you must give it a final week.

Better to have a slight spike in nitrite now, then have it when you have fish.

It looks like you are on the right track....keep up the good work!
-FHM

 

[fatheadminnow]

Besides, you are not alone...

Check this out.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=276222

-FHM

 

[fishman3]

Agreed with WD.

On the last thread you had, I mentioned that in the final week it is not uncommon to have a slight spike in nitrite in your final week.

Like WD said, that is why after you "think" you are done, you must give it a final week.

Better to have a slight spike in nitrite now, then have it when you have fish.

It looks like you are on the right track....keep up the good work!
-FHM

but WHY?? why is it not uncommon to have a spike? what in the water chemistry has changed for the last 4/5 weeks? and on this cycle run 2 1/2 weeks with bactinettes, filter start, mature media? i really dont know what more i can do.....

it seems everytime i am at the finish line the goalposts are moved, i am forever reading on here about oops i got fish and didnt cycle how do i do a fish in cycle.....and i used to think how the hell do you not research something before throwing in livestock......now i realise it's not people being fortgetful its people thinking s@d this i've been staring at an empty tank for 5 weeks now and i want something in it!!!!!!!!!

my 'kindest way for the fish' side is fading guys, tell me i am doing the right thing!

 

[fatheadminnow]

Agreed with WD.

On the last thread you had, I mentioned that in the final week it is not uncommon to have a slight spike in nitrite in your final week.

Like WD said, that is why after you "think" you are done, you must give it a final week.

Better to have a slight spike in nitrite now, then have it when you have fish.

It looks like you are on the right track....keep up the good work!
-FHM

but WHY?? why is it not uncommon to have a spike? what in the water chemistry has changed for the last 4/5 weeks? and on this cycle run 2 1/2 weeks with bactinettes, filter start, mature media? i really dont know what more i can do.....

it seems everytime i am at the finish line the goalposts are moved, i am forever reading on here about oops i got fish and didnt cycle how do i do a fish in cycle.....and i used to think how the hell do you not research something before throwing in livestock......now i realise it's not people being fortgetful its people thinking s@d this i've been staring at an empty tank for 5 weeks now and i want something in it!!!!!!!!!

my 'kindest way for the fish' side is fading guys, tell me i am doing the right thing!

I do not know what will cause this final spike in ammonia, unless you accidentally added a little more ammonia then before, as the nitrifying bacteria take a little longer to colonize then the bacteria that break down ammonia

All I know is that it happens, and is very common.

It took me 8 weeks for my tank to cycle...If mine took 5 I would be thrilled.

Also, on average it takes about 4-6 weeks for a tank to cycle, so you are right in there, if you give up now, you will loose everything.

You said that the goal post is moving back every time you get near it...well every time it does it moves less and less, and eventually you will pass it.

Hang in there!

Someone will come along that will most likely give you a scientific answer to why this final spike in nitrite happens.

Don't Give Up!
-FHM

 

[fishman3]

Agreed with WD.

On the last thread you had, I mentioned that in the final week it is not uncommon to have a slight spike in nitrite in your final week.

Like WD said, that is why after you "think" you are done, you must give it a final week.

Better to have a slight spike in nitrite now, then have it when you have fish.

It looks like you are on the right track....keep up the good work!
-FHM

but WHY?? why is it not uncommon to have a spike? what in the water chemistry has changed for the last 4/5 weeks? and on this cycle run 2 1/2 weeks with bactinettes, filter start, mature media? i really dont know what more i can do.....

it seems everytime i am at the finish line the goalposts are moved, i am forever reading on here about oops i got fish and didnt cycle how do i do a fish in cycle.....and i used to think how the hell do you not research something before throwing in livestock......now i realise it's not people being fortgetful its people thinking s@d this i've been staring at an empty tank for 5 weeks now and i want something in it!!!!!!!!!

my 'kindest way for the fish' side is fading guys, tell me i am doing the right thing!

I do not know what will cause this final spike in ammonia, unless you accidentally added a little more ammonia then before, as the nitrifying bacteria take a little longer to colonize then the bacteria that break down ammonia

All I know is that it happens, and is very common.

It took me 8 weeks for my tank to cycle...If mine took 5 I would be thrilled.

Also, on average it takes about 4-6 weeks for a tank to cycle, so you are right in there, if you give up now, you will loose everything.

You said that the goal post is moving back every time you get near it...well every time it does it moves less and less, and eventually you will pass it.

Hang in there!

Someone will come along that will most likely give you a scientific answer to why this final spike in nitrite happens.

Don't Give Up!
-FHM

i wont give up i just needed to rant a lot i think..............!!!! hahahaha

i know its the right way and i know its the way i should be doing it but for me it doesnt make it any less frustrating!!!

I know in the linked thread people talk of a sense of achievement and i will probably feel the same at the end of all this but at the moment it definately feels like a chore to be overcome rather than an exciting time to grow with my tank.

anyway enough of my doom and gloom, if i really was going to throw in the towel i wouldnt have come on the boards and declared it would I, i would have simply done it. Human nature and all that, i think i just needed re-assuring that all wasn't as bad as it seemed and to stop being such a baby......

this is complete thanks WD and FHM much appreciated

Agreed with WD.

On the last thread you had, I mentioned that in the final week it is not uncommon to have a slight spike in nitrite in your final week.

Like WD said, that is why after you "think" you are done, you must give it a final week.

Better to have a slight spike in nitrite now, then have it when you have fish.

It looks like you are on the right track....keep up the good work!
-FHM

but WHY?? why is it not uncommon to have a spike? what in the water chemistry has changed for the last 4/5 weeks? and on this cycle run 2 1/2 weeks with bactinettes, filter start, mature media? i really dont know what more i can do.....

it seems everytime i am at the finish line the goalposts are moved, i am forever reading on here about oops i got fish and didnt cycle how do i do a fish in cycle.....and i used to think how the hell do you not research something before throwing in livestock......now i realise it's not people being fortgetful its people thinking s@d this i've been staring at an empty tank for 5 weeks now and i want something in it!!!!!!!!!

my 'kindest way for the fish' side is fading guys, tell me i am doing the right thing!

I do not know what will cause this final spike in ammonia, unless you accidentally added a little more ammonia then before, as the nitrifying bacteria take a little longer to colonize then the bacteria that break down ammonia

All I know is that it happens, and is very common.

It took me 8 weeks for my tank to cycle...If mine took 5 I would be thrilled.

Also, on average it takes about 4-6 weeks for a tank to cycle, so you are right in there, if you give up now, you will loose everything.

You said that the goal post is moving back every time you get near it...well every time it does it moves less and less, and eventually you will pass it.

Hang in there!

Someone will come along that will most likely give you a scientific answer to why this final spike in nitrite happens.

Don't Give Up!
-FHM

i wont give up i just needed to rant a lot i think..............!!!! hahahaha

i know its the right way and i know its the way i should be doing it but for me it doesnt make it any less frustrating!!!

I know in the linked thread people talk of a sense of achievement and i will probably feel the same at the end of all this but at the moment it definately feels like a chore to be overcome rather than an exciting time to grow with my tank.

anyway enough of my doom and gloom, if i really was going to throw in the towel i wouldnt have come on the boards and declared it would I, i would have simply done it. Human nature and all that, i think i just needed re-assuring that all wasn't as bad as it seemed and to stop being such a baby......

this is complete thanks WD and FHM much appreciated

oh and guys just a quick one, do i continue to put in ammonia 5ppm tonight or should i wait for the spike to go completely?

 

[waterdrop]

Well, as to the "why" question, I would start by saying to remember that what you are doing is "biology", not "chemistry"... there's a huge difference. Populations of organisms each having millions of genes and complex organic molecules and living in a complex environment is not the same thing at all as a repeatable chemistry experiment. We're just taking snapshots with our little tests of something that would look very complex if you could get down in there with your microscope! You should see the complexity that some of the university labs look at when they look at the development and structure and functioning of bacterial biofilms.. yes, there are really people out there with million dollar labs doing that kind of stuff! We have a pretty useful and reasonably reliable little set of "procedures" as hobbyists, but there's plenty going on we don't see.

OK, so you sound to be getting your true "right of passage" in this thread .. I think every one of us who has done a fishless cycle that didn't happen to go easily has reached this kind of moment when we want to scream with impatience. I know I did. All sorts of thoughts go through your head, not the least often being "These are just a bunch of inexpensive fish stock from a pet shop, why do I care this much!!" In my own case I then subsequently found though that once my filter finally, (FINALLY!) started delivering those little sky blue and lemon yellow results from my api test tubes, I felt a euphoria, I felt vindicated! I knew that then that the members had been "for real" all along and that I now understood cycling on a whole new level that involved my gut!

~~waterdrop~~ (there, hope I put enough emotion in that to inspire you for a day, )

 

[fishman3]

Well, as to the "why" question, I would start by saying to remember that what you are doing is "biology", not "chemistry"... there's a huge difference. Populations of organisms each having millions of genes and complex organic molecules and living in a complex environment is not the same thing at all as a repeatable chemistry experiment. We're just taking snapshots with our little tests of something that would look very complex if you could get down in there with your microscope! You should see the complexity that some of the university labs look at when they look at the development and structure and functioning of bacterial biofilms.. yes, there are really people out there with million dollar labs doing that kind of stuff! We have a pretty useful and reasonably reliable little set of "procedures" as hobbyists, but there's plenty going on we don't see.

OK, so you sound to be getting your true "right of passage" in this thread .. I think every one of us who has done a fishless cycle that didn't happen to go easily has reached this kind of moment when we want to scream with impatience. I know I did. All sorts of thoughts go through your head, not the least often being "These are just a bunch of inexpensive fish stock from a pet shop, why do I care this much!!" In my own case I then subsequently found though that once my filter finally, (FINALLY!) started delivering those little sky blue and lemon yellow results from my api test tubes, I felt a euphoria, I felt vindicated! I knew that then that the members had been "for real" all along and that I now understood cycling on a whole new level that involved my gut!

~~waterdrop~~ (there, hope I put enough emotion in that to inspire you for a day, )

hahahaha your good........

inspired and ready for another week of fishless cycling!!!!!!! bring it on.............



thanks guy's this has really helped as well as make me smile!!!

 

[fatheadminnow]

Well, as to the "why" question, I would start by saying to remember that what you are doing is "biology", not "chemistry"... there's a huge difference. Populations of organisms each having millions of genes and complex organic molecules and living in a complex environment is not the same thing at all as a repeatable chemistry experiment. We're just taking snapshots with our little tests of something that would look very complex if you could get down in there with your microscope! You should see the complexity that some of the university labs look at when they look at the development and structure and functioning of bacterial biofilms.. yes, there are really people out there with million dollar labs doing that kind of stuff! We have a pretty useful and reasonably reliable little set of "procedures" as hobbyists, but there's plenty going on we don't see.

OK, so you sound to be getting your true "right of passage" in this thread .. I think every one of us who has done a fishless cycle that didn't happen to go easily has reached this kind of moment when we want to scream with impatience. I know I did. All sorts of thoughts go through your head, not the least often being "These are just a bunch of inexpensive fish stock from a pet shop, why do I care this much!!" In my own case I then subsequently found though that once my filter finally, (FINALLY!) started delivering those little sky blue and lemon yellow results from my api test tubes, I felt a euphoria, I felt vindicated! I knew that then that the members had been "for real" all along and that I now understood cycling on a whole new level that involved my gut!

~~waterdrop~~ (there, hope I put enough emotion in that to inspire you for a day, )

hahahaha your good........

inspired and ready for another week of fishless cycling!!!!!!! bring it on.............



thanks guy's this has really helped as well as make me smile!!!

Thats the spirit!

Let us know the outcome, and how everything plays out.......well I probably dont have to tell you that......lol...

Best of luck!
-FHM

 

[pammy172]

Sorry to read of your latest blip - I really feel for you, but do keep at it. I'm sure I'm going to be joining you in the tearing the hair out party and then in the euphoria party - eventually - and mine's only been going 3 weeks.

But it is frustrating when you do everything you think is right when others just seem to jump in with a lakse approach and seem to get away with it - but then you read the other horror stories and know it will be worth it - eventually.

Good luck keep at it. Looking forward to reading the Fish are in thread

 

[fishman3]

so on the ammonia question??? do i re-charge with 5ppm tonight or leave it until the nitrite spike has dissapeared?

 

[fatheadminnow]

so on the ammonia question??? do i re-charge with 5ppm tonight or leave it until the nitrite spike has dissapeared?

I would probably do a little water change to bring the nitrite down a little, maybe down to .25 or so, and then add 5ppm of ammonia again and check it in 12 hours.

-FHM

 

[fishman3]

so on the ammonia question??? do i re-charge with 5ppm tonight or leave it until the nitrite spike has dissapeared?

I would probably do a little water change to bring the nitrite down a little, maybe down to .25 or so, and then add 5ppm of ammonia again and check it in 12 hours.

-FHM

thanks FHM i've done a 90% water change now and just waiting for ideal temp and will re-charge with ammonia.

I have also noticed some floaty kind of white worms, from these forums i think they are PLANARIA? however these are common with overfed aquaria and i'm not using any fish flake in my cycling process. should i be worried or will the fish (when they are finally added) eat these little suckers?

Phil