Oh Great

You misunderstanded me I guess. What I was trying to say was that if you cut something (such as resources) people will have to be willing to change there life. People are spoiled, and if they have always had something they don't consider what they would do without it.
That's the reason mass transit doesn't seem to work well in the US (except in big cities where gridlock is terrible). We are too tied to convenience. Charlotte, NC (across the river from where I live) is in the process of putting in a super expensive (and already WAY over budget) light rail system from the section of town that is growing fastest to the uptown area. Everyone except the politicians that pushed it through knows that the only people that will use it are the ones that are tied to mass transit because they can't afford a car. It's the same way with the bus system there. These white collar workers who work up town aren't going to spend time waiting on the train, spend another 30 minutes at least riding in while it stops at each station and picks up more people and then have to walk from the station to their office which can be several more blocks when they can drive their own car and be there in 30 to 45 minutes.

It's convenience pure and simple and as stated earlier, until we decide (or are forced to) to give up some of the luxuries and conveniences, we are only going to pollute more and burn more oil and gas. We're spoiled and I'll be the first to admit that I fall into that same catagory.
 
We have gotten off onto mainly carbon pollution which I assumes mainly comes from cars. I definitely don't have the statistics but I'm sure the US probably has more cars that any country in the world. At the very least we have more big gas gussler, heavy polluting cars so it stnds to reason we are the biggest producer of carbon emmissions. Unfortunately, that's not the only kind of pollution. Although a lot of it may be a side effect of them such as the junk mentioned in the OP.

I am not sure what causes carbon emissions more than cars but electricity generating plants that use fossil fuel to operate will emit carbon, as will the fuel processing plant mentioned in the OP. Of course carbon emissions are not the only source of pollution by any means you are right about that for sure, but most scientists agree that carbon emissions speed up the greenhouse effect and have the single greatest negative influence over global warming and possible global catastrophe. Also when you take into account that carbon dioxide guzzling trees are being cut down while more CO2 is being released into the atmosphere and not being used up naturally you realise it isn't a good thing. I might be unfair to label the USA as the worst polluter but from the figures it is, or was the highest emitter of carbon as a nation and could be considered the worst emitter of carbon per person.
 
Also when you take into account that carbon dioxide guzzling trees are being cut down while more CO2 is being released into the atmosphere and not being used up naturally you realise it isn't a good thing.
I see this every day. As a Realtor, I'm always visiting new subdivisions and the big national homebuilders are the world's worst. They buy a beautifully wooded piece of land, bulldoze everything build their homes right on top of each other and then plant some small trees and shrubs. Hardly makes up for all they cut down.

The city of Charlotte nearby is a very beautiful city with lots of tree-lined streets. If you cut down a tree in the city limits for any reason, you have to plant 3 back. It's a law. In some of the older neighborhoods, it's nikd of hard to do as there are so many huge trees that when one dies and has to be taken down (law still applies) new ones never get any light and die anyway. Unfortunately, these track builders don't build in the city so they aren't affected by the law.
 
This has turned into quite an interesting thread, I have found it quite eye opening in the sense of how others view the environment and who people think are to blame for the state it is in. One thing that is abundantly clear is worlds top polluters need to make firm commitments on reducing pollution, everyone needs to try and make a difference really.
 
It has been interesting. Unfortunately, we are all to blame for it. Some of us more than others but still we're all to blame. If we in the US we're so dependent on our cars, trucks and planes, maybe BP wouldn't be dumping more waste into the Great Lakes.
 
At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what the governments say or do, because they need people to vote for them to stay in power.

If they upset the people they get voted out.

A high percentage of people will say they care about the effects on the environment, then drive home, turn the light on if its even slightly dark, open the fridge door which then triggers a fridge light that doesn't need to be on because they already have their kitchen light on.

They then move onto the lounge (leaving the kitchen light on) taking their plastic, foil and cellophane wrapped snack with them. press the standby button (they had the standby on) then feel the urge to go to the toilet. Flush the toilet with a full tank of water just for 1 pee.

They then forget about the telly and leave it on whilst umming and ahhing about the plastic, foil and cellophane in their hands. Then throw it in the normal trash instead of recycling because they can't be arsed to rinse the recyclables up (UK councils demand clean plastics etc)

Then they hear a knock on the door. It's a man asking questions about the environment. Very well done sir youve answered all the questions perfectly. Shuts the door, leaves the lights on, leaves the telly on, goes to sleep.

I guess you see what I'm saying. We all do the above (maybe not so much the cleaning of the recyclables and not all in a sequence like this but over the space of a week)

We are all guilty, and we all say we care, but we all end up doing some of the things again because we are too easily bored, we eat luxury easy food, and are incredibly lazy compared to our forefathers.

Andy
 
You're absolutely right. I hae got to ask a question though. What is a standby button? Im sure it's something I use everyday and just call it another name.
 
It has been interesting. Unfortunately, we are all to blame for it. Some of us more than others but still we're all to blame. If we in the US we're so dependent on our cars, trucks and planes, maybe BP wouldn't be dumping more waste into the Great Lakes.

I wouldn't say the US is completely to blame, part of the problem is that the US is to a degree an oil producing country, if the US as a nation decided tomorrow that they would no longer use oil not only would the country eventually grind to a halt the thousands of americans working in the oil industry would feel like the US government had treated them unjustly by taking their jobs away from them. I think that the reason BP has chosen the USA to do this is because the rules seem like they are more relaxed when it comes to this type of thing and as the oil is being sourced in that area it would make more logical sence to do it there than use fuel to transport it elsewhere, and I think the reason the US government has let them do this is because there is the constant threat of rising prices or indeed the complete blanket on selling oil to the US with all the anti american sentiments in the middle east, should that happen with no back up plan then prices will sky rocket leaving the average american motorist upset. I am under the impression that in america the same as here the government has a tax on the purchase of fuel, so if they US government doesn't have some sort of back up plan then they might be in for a tough time.

In the UK there seems to be a constant debate on powerstations, do we generate our electricity by burning non renewable fossil fuels and releasing carbon, do we use nuclear powerstations which has the ever present threat of catastrophe, or do we use wind farms. Where I live in the UK there is a nuclear power station in my county and there are several wind farms. I have never heard any serious or non serious problems with the nuclear powerstation, but people are up in arms about the wind farms, and I can see their point, by their very nature they can only go up in country areas and they look bloody awful, so that means the sort of places that tempt people out of the city for a weekend, the sort of people who will come and spend money, money that is a great injection to the local economy may not want to come back anymore. What is laughable is you regularly see them not actually switched on, the reason for this I am told is if it is too windy they don't work correctly and can become damaged, so ket me get this straight, you want to put a great big unsightly, un natural looking 'thing' in the middle of the beautiful, scenic unspoilt countryside because it's nice and windy here and then you tell me you can't switch it on because it's too windy.

I do think I would rather have the nuclear solution, I don't think there has ever been an incident at a properly maintained nuclear facility, I don't like the thought of the impact of conventional carbon emitting powerstations and I hate the look of wind farms, much like I am befuddles by the logic of them.

Interestingly my big dream is to sell up and move to New Zealand, we wouldn't be on the road every week visiting relatives. New Zealand is big and varied enough to travel around for holidays, I would like to use the car less and we would only fly back to the UK maybe once a year if ever. Ideally a nice solar paneled house would be our home. Although I am not sure what harm comes to the environment to make solar paneling it would hopefully pay for itself and save money in the long run.

I almost had a grasp of that dream last year but I had to turn the job down due to ill health. :angry:
 
I think he is saying that every person here is to balme to some degree. I don't think he is saying we as in American, because American isn't even the most environmentally destructive country. China is by far the worst. And as I'm told by some british members on here, we are also extremely backwards savages when it comes to our environmental ideas. Since some British gentleman said this, I assume it must be true of course, But nothing these brilliant members say can put me off from believeing China may somehow be slightly more careless, even more careless than savage americans when it comes to environmental preservation.
 
You're absolutely right. I hae got to ask a question though. What is a standby button? Im sure it's something I use everyday and just call it another name.

Instead of turning the tv off manually, the button on the remote that just turns it to standby and usually emits a light to tell you that it does that. I am a bit peed off I can't turn my cooker clock off as I never set it and have no use for it. Actually my better half is terrible when it comes to turning things off and it really makes me insanely angry. Lights and TVs on when no one is in, her new trick is to use the microwave and just leave the microwave door open after removing the food. Angry isn't the word.

As for recycling plastic, we don't get the option for kirbside plastic recycling but we try and take most of it down to the asda recycling point. I am quite interested in learning the actual facts for recycling certain materials, as I have heard that something like only 5% of plastic is successfully recycled, which if true is a bit... well... erm.. rubbish for want of a better word. The other thing that annoys me about our council is they don't accept veg peelings and such in the green compost bin, whereas lots of other councils do. I was reading the pamphlet for St Helens town councils compost recycling and it puts the south lakeland regime to shame, it takes all forms of compost, brown as well as green, so you can throw your card board in there and your tea bags etc which is great. When I asked why we can't do the same here I was told that we had to either buy a compost bin for our own garden or put it in the landfill bin, we bought the compost bin which is still yet to arrive over 2 months after ordering, what happens to our compostables that go in the landfil bin I asked a woman at the council, she told me it bio degrades in the landfil and doesn't take up any more space of the landfill after it breaks down back into the environment. So why bother putting anything compostable into the green bin, after all it's only going to break down into the environment at land fill isn't it? Way to go at selling recycling to the general public. The other annoying thing is we now only get a landfill collection every fortnight and a recycling collection alternate fortnights, thats fine if we were actually allowed to recycle as we would want to. Most of our food wrappers came from shops which used bio degradable bags, which basically means we could compost it, if our bin ever arrived, or put it in the green compost collection bin, if they let us. We rarely buy newspapers and try to use as much paperless online billing as possible so our actual paper recycling is next to nothing, the milklan takes his empties back, and we rarely buy food in tins and glass jars. If we did we would use the glass and tin recycling point at our childrens nursey. The thing that fills our bins is nappies, until recently we had 2 children in nappies, unfortunately these things take like a millenia to break down so it's very bad, the other choice is washable nappies, which means the washing machine on constantly instead of almost constantly. Now we have found ourselves actively buying food in cans and bottles because it creates more space in our landfill bin. Surely it would make more sense if they just took the compostable wrappers away in the bloody compost bin like any other sane council instead of putting us in a position where we have to create more intensive recycling as opposed to the stuff doing it by just being exposed to the elements themselves. The tagline here is 'lets sort it together'. Well I would if you gave us half a bleeding chance.

Phew that feels better after a nice rant against 'the man'.


I think he is saying that every person here is to balme to some degree. I don't think he is saying we as in American, because American isn't even the most environmentally destructive country. China is by far the worst. And as I'm told by some british members on here, we are also extremely backwards savages when it comes to our environmental ideas. Since some British gentleman said this, I assume it must be true of course, But nothing these brilliant members say can put me off from believeing China may somehow be slightly more careless, even more careless than savage americans when it comes to environmental preservation.

I haven't seen anyone say Americans are savages or backwards. China probably is more careless towards the environment in some regards, but as a post I made previously is able to show that with regards to carbon emissions, Americans produce something like 4 times as much per person than China does. The UK is worse than China in that respect too. But of course that doesn't take into acount the crap they let flow into the waterways so it isn't an accurate statement on the overall picture, just an acurate statement on the given facts. Interestingly in one of the articles I linked to it says that China will do nothing to curb their pollution while America does nothing, and while it is a somewhat poor defence for harming the environment they do have a point. The world views america as self appointed leaders of the free world, I don't really know how Americans view their own nation, but as a British person I think America is certainly the most powerful nation on earth and the US government seems to me like they are quite happy to push that fact, which is absolutely fine as they can back it up, however if America really is leader of the free world it would be fair to assume they should 'lead by example'. Sign up to cutting emmisions, or make your own targets and stick to them, make laws to prevent actions such as the news story in the OP and stick to them, make it impossible to weasle out of which may or may not have been the case, I am curious how many other exemptions have been issued like this? Is it only oil companies that receive an exemption?
 
IN hte end its all about moneymoeny moeny
the problem with governments is they syas hteyll do something but hten they plan it out and then they say "wow thats alot"
so they look at hte price tag, and say "nah not woth it"
Government are scared ot make the cuts in their budget for hte environment which will lead to higher taxes and people will start complaining about it....
 
Im not sure our TV has a standby on it. I just use the remote to turn the power off to it. Our city doesnt do curbside pick up of recycleables either and the nearest place to take them is a good 20 minute drive away. And of course, if you don't have a truck, you can't get them there unless you want to put garbage in the back seat of your car.
 
Im not sure our TV has a standby on it. I just use the remote to turn the power off to it. Our city doesnt do curbside pick up of recycleables either and the nearest place to take them is a good 20 minute drive away. And of course, if you don't have a truck, you can't get them there unless you want to put garbage in the back seat of your car.

Over here the power button on a remote will turn the device off but leaves a little light on it to tell you that it is turned off but can be re turned on by the remote incase you are hard of understanding.

Curbside pick ups for recycling is relatively new for us, before that we had to drive 20 miutes to the supermarket to do it. As for putting rubbish on your back seat, you wash it out first, it only takes a minute and doesn't make a mess.
 
No lights stay on on either my TV or my remote which is a universal remote that runs the TV, VCR/DVD and DirecTV. We need to start recycling plastic bottles as we drink a lot of soft drinks. I guess we've always been too lazy (no excuse) just like the majority of the country.
 
I see this every day. As a Realtor, I'm always visiting new subdivisions and the big national homebuilders are the world's worst. They buy a beautifully wooded piece of land, bulldoze everything build their homes right on top of each other and then plant some small trees and shrubs. Hardly makes up for all they cut down.

However, CO2 processing of the planet is mostly performed by the oceans. The idea of the Tropical rainforests being the "lungs of the Earth" is a misnomer. When you consider the decay of dying trees and plant life, forests are at best only slightly better than carbon neutral.

Im not sure our TV has a standby on it. I just use the remote to turn the power off to it.

That is standby. If you don't turn the pwoer off manually (either at the wall, or a push button on the TV) then it is using very nearly the same amount of power as when it is on.
 

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