Not Allowed To Use Ammonia!

[CeeJayy]

Okay, so i wanted to get some ammonia today to start my fishless cycle. I asked my dad and hes refused to let me use it. He's said ''You have started tanks before without it so do it again'' - Okay, i understand but what can i do now? Theres no way im allowed to get it and i need to cycle my tank.

Also i cant afford a API freshwater master test kit atm.. 2 weeks and i think i might be able too. Ive got a couple of dip sticks (RUBBISH!) But they dont test for ammonia.

Just incase its needed: 37cm x 28cm x 46 cm. (35L)

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[AdAndrews]

you could do a fish in cycle, i find no problems with this, as long as you test often enough and perform water changes 1-2 times a day it will be fine on the fish, pick hardy species like wcmm or danios....

another option is to cycle your filter in an existing tank if you have one, run it for 6-8 weeks then put it into the tank on the morning you go out and buy fish

or you could just hassle your dad until he gives up

 

[rdd1952]

You can use something like prawns or even fish flakes to create ammonia. It's kind of messy and a lot more expensie than ammonia but will work. As mentioned, if you have another tank running, just move some filter media over from it into the mew one and stock slowly.

 

[jonp]

never done it myself but I understand some members have started the fishless cycle process with either fishfood or prawns etc. ?

 

[CeeJayy]

I would move some media over, but the only problem is:

In my coldwater tank, the filter is this one: http/relaunch.tetra.de/tetra_cf/tet_inte...05_a01_v001.png

And in my tropical tank the filter is this one: http/www.ukpetsupplies.com/images/produc...ics/a140_lg.jpg

The sponges are completely different, and i dont have any replacement sponges from my coldwater tank.

There are some black stoney kind of things inside the coldwater pouch.. could i take some of them out and add them to my stingray?

 

[three-fingers]

Buy this if you can: [URL="http/www.ntlabs.co.uk/product_details.php?product_id=77"]http/www.ntlabs.co.uk/product_details.php?product_id=77[/URL]

Don't mention anything about ammonia .

edit: Scrap that, if you have an already running tank, just cut some media off and shove it in any way you can .

 

[rdd1952]

The filter pack for the cold water tank holds media such as carbon. You should be able to move media over if the other filter has a place for it. Even if you're running carbon (most people don't use it), you can still move some over and just not change it for few weeks. It really serves no practical purpose in removing stuff from the water unless you've medicated the tank and are removing the meds so it doesn't necessarily have to be changed every 2 weeks as the instuctions say. As a matter of fact, having to change it is the primary reason most don't use it. Everytime you change carbon, you throw the majority of your beneficial bacteria in the trash.

 

[CeeJayy]

Ive got some Bactinettes - Could i put them in my filter?

 

[stonedcamel]

you use your own urine.... ive heard it mentioned before

 

[rdd1952]

I believe bactinettes are supposed to work but I've never used them. I would definitely give it a try.

 

[waterdrop]

ok cj, we've faced this before in the forum and its worked out. Luckily you've got a fair number of Dads here talking to you ( , me included) so hopefully we know a bit about how they think! First off, I agree with the other advice above, all viable options, and it'll help you feel better knowing there are several options that will work.

I think a good first move would be to go ahead and begin right away with either fish flakes or prawns (whichever happens to seem easier for you to get) because they will take a long time and it won't hurt whatever we decide to do later. Prawns are easy because you put them in once and then just take a look at them every now and then, whereas with fish food you want to grind it up in a very fine powder and keep putting it in on a regular basis. I think the main difficulty with either of these is your own head, you have to just basically do them for a full month not expecting to have anything before that or to be able to interpret the process very understandably.

MEANWHILE, you should continue to work on your dad in a gentle and friendly way: One thing to explain is that the amount of ammonia you are putting in the tank water is so small that it would probably still be drinkable (but don't ever do that of course because in the case of your tank there will now be bacteria!) as its in "parts per -million-! In my case, the large bottle of ammonia I got from the grocery store was less than $1 (if money is an issue(?)) which I assume is somewhere about a UK pound these days? Incidently, its helpful to try to understand on your part the basis of his objection so you can be trying to figure out a solution from his point of view. Another useful thing about household ammonia is that any that you don't use could then be used by you to help clean the kitchen or bathrooms or some special cleaning project the family has needed doing for a while (shed, garage?) anyway you get the idea. Also, sometimes dad's moods change over time.

And of course it always helps to keep watching for your opportunities for discussion at dinner or whatever. You can talk about how fish were always used for decades (1920's through 1970's) to "cycle" fish tanks but that in the 1980's some professor/hobbyist types on the who were having discussions on the newly created "usenet" connecting mainframe computers got the idea that plain ammonia could be used instead of putting the fish in danger. A guy named Chris Cow was supposed to be the person who figured out the technique or tried it first. Ever since then its been refined and used more and more and is now very accepted.

As AdAndrews posts, if you do end up doing a fish-in cycle, the members here can guide you in the way to do that that hopefully is the most humane. Using very small numbers of fish with lots of testing and lots of water changes can help this work out. Its never very desirable because of the chances of permanent gill and nerve damage, but it can be done.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[CeeJayy]

Hi waterdrop, thanks so much for your post!

Problem is, my whole family are sick to death of me talking about fish! they have no intrest at all and its my hobby, im in a small room with 2 tanks and this is where i stay, lol! Although when i asked my dad today to take me to Homebase/Boots to get some household ammonia his responce was:

Dad: ''Dont even think about putting it in your tank, you have set tanks up without it before and do it again''
Me: ''But i need it to cycle my tank.. theres not much i can do without it...''
Dad: ''Just put your tank in the garage and forget about it then!, Your not having the ammonia''

Theres no way im putting the tank in the garage and forgetting about it. Ive just forked out £50 of my own money (I work in a fish and chip shop.. how ironic!) on a filter, heater and new lights because i was given the tank in a very poor condition.

I was going to get a betta, but im not now. Im going to set up a community tank.

The man in the LFS told me if i was to use the Bactinettes i have to put the fish in 3/4 hours after, because the ammonia from their poo feeds the bacteria, and seeing as i cant get my hands on ammonia.. ill have to go down the fish-in route.

Any help with me doing a fish-in route would be amazingly appreciated.. but please be aware i dont have a test kit (I have 5 test strips left, they test for GH, KH, pH, NitrIte and NitrAte. No ammonia, plus they are VERY inacurate. I tested my water with them and the Nitrite was high, i walked 30 mins to Pets@Home with some water and they tested it. The water was perfect!)

Edit: Ill have to save up some money from work and get a liquid test kit.. itll be in 2 weeks if i buy it from Pets@Home (29.99!)

Thankyou, CJ.

 

[craig855s]

just go buy it behind his back..i would. Its YOUR MONEY,YOUR TANK,YOUR FISH and he clearly knows NOTHING about the hobby. He is not allowing you to spend a quid of you own money for a reason he is not willing to explain but i think it may be because he thinks putting ammonia in tanks is the wrong thing to do...does he not know that fish produce ammonia constantly so it HAS to be in the tank,weather u put it there or not ammonia will be in that tank,explain that to him,pr just dont mention it to him that u are doing it. And BTW i found an API master on ebay for about 7 quid (its been used once) so if ur funds are low then i really recomend ebay.

 

[CeeJayy]

just go buy it behind his back..i would. Its YOUR MONEY,YOUR TANK,YOUR FISH and he clearly knows NOTHING about the hobby. He is not allowing you to spend a quid of you own money for a reason he is not willing to explain but i think it may be because he thinks putting ammonia in tanks is the wrong thing to do...does he not know that fish produce ammonia constantly so it HAS to be in the tank,weather u put it there or not ammonia will be in that tank,explain that to him,pr just dont mention it to him that u are doing it. And BTW i found an API master on ebay for about 7 quid (its been used once) so if ur funds are low then i really recomend ebay.

Sorry, i might be angry at the matter but im not disobedient. I respect my (step)dad and i wont do nothing behind his back. Hes bought be up better than my blood father and if he dont want me to get the ammonia i wont. Yeah its my money, my tank and my fish but thers no way i would go behind his back - Hope that doesnt sound stupid - Yeah if i want/need something enough ill try to get it. But i don't do stuff behind peoples backs.

Hes the one who takes me to my LFS to buy my fish and meds, but if he dont want me to get the ammonia i wont.

Sorry

 

[OldMan47]

That doesn't sound stupid at all CJ. I would say that your best bet right now is to put the new filter, with appropriate media in it, into the established tank and wait a few weeks. After a few weeks, the new filter will contain enough of a living bacterial colony to move it to another tank and stock it lightly. You won't be getting anything that your dad doesn't want and your fish will get off to a good start.