Noob Fishless Cycling Question

[waterdrop]

I took it that Basics was still asking questions pertaining to the initial setup of the tank, so the question about cleaning the tank insides and the plastic/silk plants referred to the dirt, old dried algae, stains etc. from this equipment sitting in the sellers attic. Is that right Basics? If so, I think those are good questions.

Fresh tap water, a sponge that has never had soap and has a little roughness to it and plenty of elbow grease are what's needed on the inside of an old tank. A little vinegar (later rinsed out) can be helpful if there is some limescale. If the limescale is serious you should consult us for further tips. Plastic plants usually come clean more easily with similar treatment and are easier to work with underneath the tap.

I agree with Twinkle about how nice it is to go ahead and get started on the fishless cycle but its ideal in your sort of circumstance to first take the extra time to get familiar with and possibly make changes to the unknown filter. Unless the media materials (sponges etc.) seem like they are still pretty new and clean up well under the tap (I'm going to assume they got all dried out in the attic and there's no change we're in a situation where good bacteria could be salvaged here! ) then its probably going to be best to identify the make/model (pictures or closer examination for name/number info, and/or google picture searches!) (you could look at google pics of fluval internals or other popular internals) and get new replacement sponges. This should be also be done with member consultation here in your thread (eg. the plain blue sponges for fluvals, rather than the green nitrate ones, no carbon etc. etc.) before you actually buy.

Meanwhile, yes, you want to be getting a good liquid reagent based test kit. You'll definately need this very quickly in your fishless cycle so you have have the maximum learning experience. You want to be reading the Nitrogen Cycle, Fishless Cycle and Fish-In cycle articles, along with Miss Wiggles tank startup article in the Beginners Resource Center if you haven't already.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Channti]

I had assumed that Basics had already started a fishless cycle. I should read a little more carefully; my apologies.

 

[Twinklecaz]

My Fluval sponges are white

 

[Basics]

First off, I'd like to thank you waterdrop for your time, and catching up on the whole thread. I was trying to make my points and questions all together so they would be easy to answer, but I'm no good at that. Thanks for going through and making sense of it all.

I took it that Basics was still asking questions pertaining to the initial setup of the tank, so the question about cleaning the tank insides and the plastic/silk plants referred to the dirt, old dried algae, stains etc. from this equipment sitting in the sellers attic. Is that right Basics? If so, I think those are good questions.

Yep thats exactly it.

Fresh tap water, a sponge that has never had soap and has a little roughness to it and plenty of elbow grease are what's needed on the inside of an old tank. A little vinegar (later rinsed out) can be helpful if there is some limescale. If the limescale is serious you should consult us for further tips. Plastic plants usually come clean more easily with similar treatment and are easier to work with underneath the tap.

Thanks for this, I'm going to scoop out all of the gravel and give the glass a good cleaning. I've noticed that the gravel has loads of stuff in it, assuming its algae and fish waste and all the other yummy things that settle in the gravel. I also thing they had sick fish either from bad care or neglect wich led to them not using the tank anymore. IS there any way disease can stay in the gravel? I'm going to give it a good cleaning/rinsing as well. Should i use really hot water or anything to try and sterilise it as much as possible? I thought about pressure cooking it

I agree with Twinkle about how nice it is to go ahead and get started on the fishless cycle but its ideal in your sort of circumstance to first take the extra time to get familiar with and possibly make changes to the unknown filter. Unless the media materials (sponges etc.) seem like they are still pretty new and clean up well under the tap (I'm going to assume they got all dried out in the attic and there's no change we're in a situation where good bacteria could be salvaged here! ) then its probably going to be best to identify the make/model (pictures or closer examination for name/number info, and/or google picture searches!) (you could look at google pics of fluval internals or other popular internals) and get new replacement sponges. This should be also be done with member consultation here in your thread (eg. the plain blue sponges for fluvals, rather than the green nitrate ones, no carbon etc. etc.) before you actually buy.

Well the filter still had water in it when i got it. The tank wasnt empty for more then a few months, though I'm sure the bacteria would have suffocated by now I'm including some pics of the filter and components. The sponge was green so I assumed it was so dirty that it looked green, so I rinsed it under the sink and squeezed it a bit and it came out nice and clean looking to me, but still green. Sounds like its one if those nitrate ones. It also has a carbon compartment with a bit of carbon in it. Sounds like carbon is pretty useless from what I've gathered so far, whats your opinion on that. Should I just take it out and leave that compartment empty? Do I still need to replace the sponge?

Meanwhile, yes, you want to be getting a good liquid reagent based test kit. You'll definately need this very quickly in your fishless cycle so you have have the maximum learning experience. You want to be reading the Nitrogen Cycle, Fishless Cycle and Fish-In cycle articles, along with Miss Wiggles tank startup article in the Beginners Resource Center if you haven't already.

~~waterdrop~~

I'm going to try and get ahold of them today. They said that they would get the rest of the stuff for me from the attic on wednesday last week. I think they had a party or 2 at their house over the holidays so I think there a bit wore out. Hopefully I can get the heater, test kit, and declorinator(hoping that its a liquid test kit and not strips, I'm watching ebay now though just in case.)

Heres another question for you, once my cycle is complete, can I add all the fish I want at once? Someone said that this might prevent and fish from becoming teritorial/aggressive. I thought it might not in the beggining, but after time there personality will take over. I'm not really planning on have and aggresive fish, although I am considering a betta. I'm going to do more research about bettas soon. I think I'm going to have plenty of time over the next month or so of my cycling

Thanks again to everyone for there time and help.



Basics

PS dont pay to much attention to my spelling. I'm a terrible typist and dont have the patience to check it all. I wish this forum had spell check My other forum does

 

[waterdrop]

Yeah, that's funny.. I was just commenting on one of the other currently active threads in here last night on my opinion that stocking anywhere from 50 to 80% of what would constitute a full stocking by the rough inch guideline would be a pretty successful first stocking. The thing that would drive that would be the species of fish that end up making your final stocking list. Many people will have fish on there that just do better if they are not stocked until the tank is even more mature than a good cycle makes it. (Having a completed biofilter, making the nitrogen cycle work, is not the only aspect of having a fully mature tank.) Can't remember which thread it was but shouldn't be too hard to find.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Basics]

50% sounds like a good start. I've also heard that neons are a not very hardy these days, should i wait on them for a while? Maybe I should be checking the forum for others opinions on this, I just dont have much time today and was curios about them. There the fist fish I decided that I want I really want a diverse tank of bright colors.

 

[Channti]

When I bought neons, I was told to wait until the tank had been running for a few months before buying them. I'm not sure if this advice has changed, but from what i understand, cardinal tetras are hardier than neon tetras.

In your stocking overall, as I advised before, I would avoid the Betta Splendens. Another equally colourful and attractive fish with a different body-shape is the Dwarf Gourami. I've got a "Red Flame" Dwarf Gourami in my 15 gallon tank, and it makes for a beautiful centerpiece. In the past, I had a trio of male mollies (One Black, One "Platinum" (White) Molly, and one Dalmation Molly) that made for a very striking centerpiece too.

 

[waterdrop]

Again, I would not let the "driver" of the size of the first stocking be based on all the fish you can put in (within your final stocking plan) that do -not- need to be held back waiting for a more mature tank. (eg. if one had hardy cories, hardy harlequins and delicate neon/cars, one would introduce the first two species and not the third... one would not particularly be thinking of the percentage of full that the first stocking would achieve.)

My personal recommendation on neons/cards is to wait until the tank is a full 6 months from start, regardless of when it finished its cycle. These fish are sensitive to something about new tanks and we don't know what it is, we only have the repeated observation that its true. It doesn't seem to be particularly related to the cycle. Its also not 100% true, as randomly we see some who get neons/cards early and they do ok. Its just that lucky group is smaller than the people who lose them when they do early introductions.

I agree about Dwarf gouramis, the are an extremely colorful centerpiece fish for a smaller tank and, while they can still be aggressive to a small amount, they are certainly less aggressive than most of their larger species-mates. Honey gouramis are less aggressive but perhaps not as overt in their colors.

Speaking of colors, I would like to mention that many tropical fish (freshwater in particular, this applies to) do not display their true colors in a retail shop situation. Once they are settled into a good quiet home environment for a few days or weeks, given good water and good food, you may find that their colors are much more beautiful than you thought. Freshwater coloration is also more subtle than salt but you come to really appreciate it, so all I'm saying is not to think that all fish have to catch ones eye from across the room, so to speak.

I disagree slightly about mollies. Even though I totally agree about how beautiful they are (just saw some silver lyretails this weekend that were stunning) I find that beginners need to ask whether they have good hard mineral content naturally in their water, as that can be a very necessary prerequisite for mollies.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Basics]

Thanks for the info guys. I still haven't gotten ahold of the people with the stuff I need still. Will try again today.

Also just realised that the pics I uploaded yesterday, didn't upload. Left the camera at the girlfriends so I guess I'll just have a look at some filters online till I find one that matches it. Oh and it has a green sponge in it. Is it one of those nitrate ones you mentioned before? Should I replace it then? It looks rather new since I rinsed it out.

Thanks

 

[Twinklecaz]

Just me butting in......can you keep just one Dwarf Gouarmi in an community then? What kind of fish are the more likely to pick on? I would consider dropping the Guppies and just having one of these guys if I could see.

 

[Basics]

Well I tried to upload again today and realised that its telling me that my pics are too big? Can some one point me to the posting pics help?

And twinklecaz dont worry about butting in, the more we all learn the better

 

[Twinklecaz]

Lol thanks. I'd really like one as I agree it would make a nice centrepiece fish. I do seem to have space for it too (if I drop the Guppies) but I won't get it if it'll pick on the Platties, Harlequins or Pygmy Corys. I also just read they poo a lot so I hope it wouldn't be a strain on my filter.

Also I read that they're really sensitive and not a good idea for newbies so I dunno??

 

[Channti]

I have a dwarf gourami in my 15 gallon community with:

1 very resilient dalmation molly (She's a tough piece of work!)
5 neon tetras
7 panda corys

He tends to ignore them, he just kinda does his own thing. My panda corys are VERY active, constantly nosing about the tank, my neons tend to just chill in the one back corner and dart around the plants, and my molly is always out and about exploring, bothering the neons and playing in the filter current.

IME, and just like with any fish, it depends on the personality of the individual fish. I had a dwarf gourami about 8 months ago who picked on EVERYTHING in my tank, to the point where I exchanged him at the LFS for another Dwarf Gourami (The LFS owners are friends of mine). The second Dwarf Gourami I had was great, but an ick-breakout in my tank due to some carelessness ended up leading to his death.

They make for a beautiful centerpiece fish due to their different body-shape and colouring.


**Edited for awful early morning spelling**

 

[waterdrop]

That is an excellent real-world example by Channti of exactly what I was going to say about Dwarves! The whole Gourami family (and Bettas too for that matter when speaking generally) are unusual in our tropical fish world in that their -individual- personalities vary more than many other species. So a particular individual can turn out to be more aggressive or less aggressive (which is the most prominent personality trait we usually see and talk about, although there are others) and its unpredictable which you might get. This of course leads to people sometimes giving wildly different descriptions on forums like this!

Anyway, although I'm by no means an expert, I have had lots of Dwarf Gouramis over the years and my experience is similar. A single male can work in a tank by itself, with the small risk that it might be one of the aggressive ones and you might have to exchange or get rid of it. (A female (they are more silver and sometimes harder to find as they are not as dramatic (and don't be fooled by the powder blues as that's a color variation of males now I believe)) will generally be much less aggressive.) The next workable grouping up from that is one male with two females - I believe this is a fairly classic grouping for these fish and results in just about the right division of attention to fully occupy the male, rendering him a non-factor to the rest of the community tank's inhabitants.

(I'm rushed and may not be remembering all, but...) Note that the Honey is the one Gourami that is less aggressive than the Dwarf. Then comes the Dwarf on the scale. Then comes the Pearl, which is a little unpredictable like the Dwarf. Then come most of the rest: the Kissings are bigger and significantly more aggressive, the Tricos (3-spot,blue,gold and opaline colorations) are all potentially quite mean and aggressive if not put in a big tank with fish that are bigger than them.. or at least you have to think it all through. (So, the honey and dwarf ones are the right ones to be considering as possible centerpieces for small tanks.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Twinklecaz]

Has anyone got a pic of the females? I love silver so I might like them lol!