Nitrite Dropping - When?

[fishy55]

Hi everyone,

I have been fishless cycling for three weeks now and have an API liquid test kit. I have a fluval roma 90 with 76l of water in it. I have the temperature at about 28/29 centigrade,it won't go any higher than this. The filter is a fluval u2.

The first lot of ammonia took 13 days to go from 4ppm to 0.5ppm and at this stage nitrite was 5.0ppm. The next lot took 36 hours from 4ppm to 0.0ppm, nitirite still 5.0. For the last 6 days I have been added ammonia daily (boy does it smell!!) and am now at the stage when 12 hours after adding the ammonia the test tube shows a yellow as opposed to a green colour with the same colour at 24 hours. So 0.00 ammonia after 12 hours; that part seems to have worked really well.

The nitrite is a different story though, in the last week it has gone from purple 1.0ppm to a pale lilac 0.5ppm, but there has been no change in the last 3 days. Every time I test nitrite the drops turn purple in the bottom of the tube - is that significant, as I know if they turn purple and then go pale blue it means the test has broken down.

What should I expect to see happen next - is my nitrite likely to go deep purple and spike or pale blue. I know once it is pale blue I can then do the qualifying week, then I am going to change the water and put in live plants, along with bog wood. I have fine gravel on the bottom of the tank.

I haven't as yet retested pH or nitriAte. Also there is no algae at all that I can see.

Now to the fish, I am thinking of 6 panda corys, 6 guppies and 6 platys. Is that enough / too many? Can I add them all together once this fishless cycling is done or should it be one lot at a time, and if one lot at a time what is the best order to add them in.

 

[fishy55]

I have just tested the nitrAte it is somewhere between 5 and 10, thats the same as the tap water. Shouldn't I expect it to be highter than that?

The pH is 7.6, which is the highest on the pH test kit so I did a high range pH and that was something like 7.8.

Can anyone offer me any advice please.



P.S. I have taken the carbon pads out of the filter and sorry for the spelling mistake in the title.

 

[waterdrop]

My assessment is that you're doing fine fishy55! At 21 days you are still relatively early compared to the average and even though your A-Bacs were a little slow taking off they seem to have come along fine and are doing a good job processing your ammonia quickly into lots of nitrite(NO2.) (Note that they turn each 1ppm of ammonia into 2.7ppm of nitrite, so lots is being made!)

Meanwhile, as usual, the N-Bacs are are slower to grow and have a lot more nitrite to process than the A-Bacs do ammonia. So lots of nitrite(NO2) is building up and its long ago spiked above what your NO2 test can measure. Whenever you get deep purple or other strange shiny stuff going on immediately after the nitrite test drops go in it just means you are still spiked above what can properly be measured. And that's all normal and expected. Your natural pH sounds good but of course as the cycle progresses you need to keep more and more of an eye on that, being sure to make it a part of your log, if only on a third day or every other day basis. Nitrate(NO3) doesn't tell you much because the test has a hard time being accurate with all that nitrite(NO2) in there messing it up, not to mention that its a wacky test anyway because of the second reagent sometimes having precip that gets stuck in the bottle.

What you should be watching for at this stage is simply for the day when the nitrite(NO2) excess suddenly crosses the line and has been processed down into the range your test can measure. Once your N-Bacs can process NO2 down to zero ppm within 24 hours, you are crossing into the 3rd phase of fishless cycling and need to start doing both 12 and 24 hour testing. But remember, ammonia is only ever added at the 24 hour mark, so that you don't get too much overall nitrogen in there (this is even if ammonia measures zero at your 12 hour test!)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[fishy55]

Waterdrop,

Thanks for your reply.

So are you saying that the pale lilac colour isn't 0.5ppm of nitrite at all becuase it went purple as soon as the drops sunk to the bottom of the test tube. I don't know if this helps atall, but when I left the nitrite test and came back to it about 1/2 hour later to throw it away it had turned pale green. v. strange!

Are my fish choices of around six of each panda corys, guppies and platys okay?

Fishy55

 

[waterdrop]

Yes Fishy55,

That just helps to confirm it even more. When you get a weird pale green or grayish later on in the nitrite test (and particularly after observing dark purple sunken drops or shiny greenish sunken drops) it all means your nitrite is just more extremely off the chart than if the test looked deep purple at the normal 5min mark. So the only significant piece of info we take from that is that you are still in your nitrite spike. (which is the middle of 3 phases of fishless cycling)

About your fish planning: Your 20G is a very good size for a beginner community, not to small, not too large to handle easily, so congrats on that! Those of us who advise in the beginners section like to try really hard not to influence newcomers too much on the aesthetic choice of fish. Its very hard for a beginner to tell where the advice that helps them have an appropriate and healthy fish or a good community of fish stops and where the advisors taste starts. I like to try in this respect but its hard because it ends up in a lot of writing to explain yourself! Anyway, with that qualification, I'll go ahead and comment some.

The platies and guppies are both very solid and standar fish for beginners and appropriate for your tank. The Panda cories are often admired because they are among the most striking and beautiful of cories but unfortunately they are also among the most delicate/sensitive I believe. They are not so delicate that you couldn't have them but I suspect they would appreciate not being introduced until your tank was about 6 months old and you had confirmed that not only were your ammonia and nitrite always staying at a rock solid zero ppm but that your nitrate(NO3) was fairly low and very stable. I am not a Panda expert though and someone who is might have even better comments.

OK, now, about the platies and guppies. Platies, guppies, mollies, swordtails, endlers and some other popular beginner fish are all "livebearers" (eggs hatch in the female.) The reproductive strategy of these fish is more successful in our aquariums than nearly all the egglayers and so its pretty much a sure thing these fish will be very successful and producing fry (babies) if you introduce males and females -or- even just females (the females can carry the male sperm and continue to produce from that for very long time periods.) Its often not well appreciated by beginners how much stress this can (possibly! not always) put on them as fishkeepers. There are two main stresses: first, the fry are very active and "respire" a lot as they grow, which means they have a bigger bioload (put off ammonia from their gills) than one would think - so they represent a bigger growth to your "inch per gallon" (or whatever guideline you choose) allowance for your 20 gallon tank. Secondly, if they are -very- successful and you are good and keeping the fry alive, it can be very stressful finding new homes for them with friends or with stores taking them or with making a decision to set up more fish tanks.

-Please- understand that I don't mean to exaggerate this. Having livebearers and raising some new fry for most people has been of of the great joys of the hobby and I'm only trying to round out your thinking about it, not take away the joy or fun of it if that's what you want! Note that many who are not ready for fry will choose to carefully only take males from the store for a while.

Meanwhile, let me also say that your pH, which looks like it may stay on the higher side of 7 would indeed be a good pH for most livebearers, which is nice. Platies are an extremely good choice as a first stocking (ie. they are tough even if the new biofilter falters a little.) Guppies are a little less hardy but not that much. Swordtails are extremely similar to platies in these regards I believe.

I'll hope to make some more suggestions in my next post.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Zia]

Fishy, I had the same problem with my NitIte drops -- it took me weeks to realize I was actually off the charts, rather than at .5. I'd heard the drops would turn green, but mine always changed to a gray color by 5 minutes, and I just assumed I was a "weak" .5 -- ha. I did a 75% water change (also had pH issues) and now they are at a "true" .5 -- I think. The drops still look dark when I put them in, but gently fade to a light purple, never that washed-out color I had before. Good luck!

 

[rdd1952]

Just to add one thing, with the nitrite off the charts high, you might want to do a large water change just to remove some of the nitrite. It will help speed the process a little. You really don't need enough bacteria to process all the nitrite produced during a fishless cycle. Since ammonia converts to nitrite at a rate of 1 to 2.7 so that 4ppm of ammonia ends up being 10.8ppm of nitrite. The fact that your nitrate isn't rising just means that the nitrite isn't being process much yet.

 

[fishy55]

As an update to my nitrites I did the test earlier on this evening and managed to forget it for about 20 minutes!! When I did look at it expecting a green colour its purple, maybe its coming down.

Thankyou all for your advice.

Fishy55

 

[fishy55]

I have just used my syphon for the first time and removed and replaced 1/2 of the water, washed the filter pads and biomedia in some of the old tank water as it was covered in what looks like silt from the gravel and I have added 4ml ammonia. The tank now looks like a horrible murky pond!!

I could only get the syphon to take out two bucket loads (tank holds 8) I had to do the other two with a jug because after the two buckets it wouldn't work, does that mean I have bought a syphon that is too big? I suppose in future I won't change any more than 25% so that will be okay and for the 90% water change I will have to use the jug.

There are lots of white bits floating in the water - is that algae?

I will test the ammonia and nitrIte in the morning, lets hope for some action.

Fishy55

 

[waterdrop]

If you are new to the hobby it can be a shock the first few times you see what a gravel cleaning does to the look of your water! Don't worry, that's usually quite normal and will settle down with the filter clearing it before terribly long. In a very new tank these kinds of actions will frequently stir up a lot of grayish white biofilms from bacteria that have put them down on all the interior surfaces. More mature tanks don't have this. This all eventually goes away on its own.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Deleted member 55926]

The nitrite is a different story though, in the last week it has gone from purple 1.0ppm to a pale lilac 0.5ppm, but there has been no change in the last 3 days.

What should I expect to see happen next - is my nitrite likely to go deep purple and spike or pale blue.

Looks like your nitrite is coming down, but bear in mind it can be very slow and usually takes way longer than the ammonia phase. I had times where it would stay on 0.5ppm or so for days. Be patient though. I thought my cycle was done after 3 weeks and then the nitrite spiked again to 5ppm. Make sure it goes down to 0 and then stays like that after 12 hours every day for at least a week. The cycle took at least 2 months.

Every time I test nitrite the drops turn purple in the bottom of the tube - is that significant

If you see any purple at all in the bottom when you add the drops, it means you have some nitrite but you have to shake it up and leave to see how much. Eventually, it should be sky blue when you put the drops in, and not change at all.

 

[fishy55]

Migthegreek and waterdrop and everyone else, thankyou for your responses.

After changing the water I had a couple of days where ammonia was not 0.0 at the 12 hour point but was at the 24 hour test. Today it was 0.0 after 12 hours again. So good news and back on track.

More good news, I just tested the nitrite and instead of the drops turning purple immediately, they went blue and the liquid in the testtube first of all went pale blue and then developed into pale lilac. At least I think that is good news based on what I have read on here and been advised re blue/purple tests.

 

[waterdrop]

You're right, that's good news!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[fishy55]

More news.

Todauy (day 28) on the 24 hour test nitrite was sky blue so therefore nil

Ammonia though was possibly slightly green, I can't really tell but maybe not quite nil.

Is in normal for the ammonia to go in 12 hours and then start to take longer again?

Well you can't have everything in life!

Thanks for all the help and advice, I really seem to be getting somewhere now. Heres looking forward to fish soon.

 

[fishy55]

Update,

Today, day 28 (yesterday's post should have said it was day 27). At the 12 hour morning test I have 0.0 Ammonia, nearly 0.0 nitrite (it was very pale lilac but not as dark as the 0.25). I am really pleased. NitrAte 10.0 (rising) and PH 7.2.

Looking forward to those fish, if all goes to plan could be as soon as next weekend (thats assuming Nitrite is 0.0 tomorrow (Sunday) morning.

Thank you all for your responses so far, especially the tip to change some of the water when the nitrite was off the scale - I think that really worked as the Nitrite has gone from off the scale to nearly nil after 12 hours in less than 5 days.

Fishy55