Nitrifying Bacteria - Where Does It Come From?

[rdd1952]

This question was posed by Rooster in the Newbie section yesterday and I really didn't have an answer. We all know that bacteria colonize and multiply. His question though was where does the seed come from, the first bacteria? Is it in the water, airborne, etc.? I tried doing a Google search but didn't find an answer.

 

[The-Wolf]

my understanding is it is airborne like millions of algae species

 

[rdd1952]

That's what he had suggested but I didn't have a clue and couldn't find any cycling threads or sites that made mention of it although I didn't spend a lot of time looking. There's always someone around the forum that knows the answers.

 

[Inchworm]

I'd alway heard the come from the air too. It's like making sourdough bread. Just set out some flour and water and the yeast spores will find it.

 

[Undawada]

yep, airborne. I asked that question a few years ago to my cousin who is a microbiologist and also a fishkeeper.

 

[rdd1952]

Thanks for the replies. I had really never though much about it. Kind of like the old "which came first the chicken or the egg" question. As long as they were there, it didn't really matter to me where they came from (or which came first in the chicken/egg thing).

 

[The-Wolf]

the egg came first as chickens (like all birds) evolved from reptiles and reptiles lay eggs.
so the question should really be; which came first the reptile or the egg

 

[rdd1952]

I think Godzilla came first.

 

[Lenna]

The nitrifying bacteria in fishtanks are usually Nitrosomonas spp (ammonia to nitrite) and Nitrobacter spp (nitrite to nitrate). They aren't algae and are usually found in the soil and water. They can be in the air in heavily polluted areas where they can grow on buildings. In your fishtank they'd come from the water rather than the air. When I did a fishless cycle on one of my tanks I had a glass cover with very little opening to the air, so I would have thought it unlikely.

 

[mikev]

In your fishtank they'd come from the water rather than the air.

The water in most cases has chlorine which kills the bacteria, and a conditioner would not bring it back, so air is the more likely source in most cases. Or, perhaps, your hands.

A clean experiment to resolve this would be to run a fishless cycle using distilled water.

 

[rdd1952]

A clean experiment to resolve this would be to run a fishless cycle using distilled water.

I will add that to the list of cycling experiments I intend to do. Looks like it's going to be a full year of cycling tanks.

 

[Bignose]

The nitrifying bacteria in fishtanks are usually Nitrosomonas spp (ammonia to nitrite) and Nitrobacter spp (nitrite to nitrate).

These are the species identified in a lot of older literature, newer research indicates that is it probably Nitrospira spp that is the main nitrite to nitrate oxidizer. I am pretty sure that different ammonia oxidizers are suspected as well, like Nitrosospira as well as -somonas. It seems to depend upon the ammonia concentration in this case, with one species being dominant at the beginning (high ammonia) an another taking over when the ammonia levels are low. See Hovanec et al., Applied and Environmental Biology, vol 64, p258-264, 1998 for info on the -spira. See Burell et al., Applied and Environmental Biology, vol 67, p5791-5800, 2001 for info on the -sospira.

Not coincidentally, this is why marlineland labs' bacteria-starter product is called bio-spira.

 

[mikev]

A clean experiment to resolve this would be to run a fishless cycle using distilled water.

I will add that to the list of cycling experiments I intend to do.

Upon a reflection, this is a bad idea. Distilled water also does not have the trace elements which may be needed. Probably boiling water or sterilizing it with UW light is a better test.

Looks like it's going to be a full year of cycling tanks.

I'm afraid it is more...

But after a year you should be the #1 authority in the world.

Please keep us informed of your tests' progress....

 

[Rooster]

Proper can O worms innit ?

Thanks for the brainstorm.... its junk like this that keeps me awake at night !

Some friends use RO water, which cannot possibly have bactrium present... yet they still cycle, so my thoughts are:

1. Airborne
2. Hosted on humans - either respiritory or topical ? (breathed out, or live on skin)
3. Magic




As for "which came first" my money is on Mr Dinosaur.....

 

[rdd1952]

An interesting thought occured to me earlier tonight when i was testing the ammonia on my cycling experiment tank. If the bacteria required for the tank to start cycling is airborne, would a tank that is very well sealed off tke longer to cycle? Is that why some people see the ammonia spike and drop in 6 or 7 days and for others it takes 2 weeks. Would a tank that is completely open with no cover cycle quicker? I wonder if you take a tank with RO water so that you know there isn't any bacteria in it and completely cover it, would it ever pick up the starter bacteria. When I say cover it, I mean seal off every hole around the filters, heaters, etc. Anyway, just more random thoughts.