Newbie In Need Of Help

[simplespud]

Hello everyone,

I have to say first that since I found this site, only last week, I have learned so much!

Ive been keeping coldwater fish for approx six months with no real problems (1 death at the beginning through ignorance - swimbladder I now suspect) - I took on a neighbours tropical tank 4 weeks ago - never had a tropical tank before so everything is very new. The lady didn’t want the tank and was going to have the fish humanley put to sleep - so I took the tank on - quite an ignorant thing to do. I have realised that unless your experienced or know a little
about the fish you are taking on - you dont know what your looking for - regarding normal swimming behaviour, feeding, lighting etc - its especially difficult when there are a few different species of fish to care for all at once.

I do have a problem with one of my platys and too much nitrate - my biggest worry!
Before I go into it, just a few lines on the set up/maintenance etc

Size - 30 gallon
Filter - Rena Filster XP2
Temp - 25Oc
Lighting - 2 x Arcadia Freshwater FF38 (I think that works out at approx 2.5 WPG)
Have been running them for 12 hours - but today will be reducing that down to 10 - and introduing a rest period once I have the timers - 5 on, 2 off, 5 on)
Weekly water change of approx 10% with dechlorinated water.
Feed - Switch between the following - peas, cucumber, yam, tropical flakes, Algea Wafers
Tank contents - gravel, 2x bogwood, large peice of rock (live rock?) assorted live plants.
Fish - tetras x 3, albino catfish x 2, bristlenose catfish x 1 - plecs x 2, platys x 3, Ghost Shrimp x 1, Silver Tips x 6, Tiger barbs x 2.

I know that I did have a sucker loach but havn’t seen him for a couple of days. Could this be the cause of the excessive Nitrate?

When I got home from work last night - one of the platys was resting upright on her tail, about half way up the tank, showing signs of rapid gill movement.
I dropped some flakes into the tank (dinner time) and for a couple of seconds she had a slightly strange swimming behaviour - rapidly lolled to the side and just as rapidly recovering - she did this twice and then swam as normal. eating etc. After she had eaten, she went and sat at the bottom of the tank in a large crevice under the bigger piece of bogwood.- only swimming a little out. This morning she seemed fine - still asleep but half way up the tank with the other two.

A bit of background....
The tank was full of useless clutter - ornaments, etc - On saturday I emptied the tank of all that - I then introduced some more gravel so the plants could bed in properly - when I got it, the substrate was sand/gravel. I did take a lot of the sand out on saturday and overlayed the rest with the new gravel.
I introduced some flora boost as well on saturday for the plants - but will have to rig up the Co2 system discussed on this site. I also introduced on saturday some amonia blocker as advised by my LFS - after reading through the threads on this site, should I know take this out?
Will have to post a photo of the whole tank - need to pick some batteries up today for the camera.
My biggest concern are the nitrate levels - I did a 75% water change on Saturday night. The Test reading of water from the tap, before being dechlorinated and the tank water as of last night are:
Tap Water
0 - n03
0 - N02
6 GH
6 KH
6.4 PH
From the tank
100 - n03
5 - 10 - N02
6 GH
6 KH
6.4 PH

Please bear in mind that the above readings are from the test strips - havn’t converted them using the table on the back of the leaflet. To be honest - I have never bothered with test strips and what not for the coldwater tank as regular water changes have always done the job - or so it appears. So all of this is very new to me.

Do I need to find if there is something dead in the tank - maybe the sucker loach? - would this account for the nitrate levels? Or it it something else?
Should I at the same time do a big water change tonight?
Should I take the amonia blocker out tonight?
I am sorry for the length of this post, as you can see I have quite a few questions, but would very much appreciate any help and advice that anyone has - whether its regarding my queries above or anything that may help re the set up and feed. I am slowly working my way through this site, picking up bits and pieces here and there though.

Thanks in advance

Si

 

[littlest]

I would say your biggest problem right now is NitrIte, rather than NitrAte.
Nitrite is NO2 right? (just checking, chemistry isn't my strong point).
Assumming it is, nitrite of 5-10 is lethal. That's really high. You need to start doing some large water changes ASAP. Start with 50-75% maybe, leave for an hour, test again, if nitrite is still above 0.25 do another 50%(using dechlorinater each time).

You want to get some liquid tests. Strips are known to be inaccurate, and they don't test for ammonia, which you need to be doing.

Why your nitrite is so high could be for a few reasons, for one, yur tank sounds pretty heavily stocked to me (though I admit I am no expert on stocking). In particular, do you know what type of plecs you have? common plecs get very big and produce a lot of waste.

Another thing is what happened to the filter when the tank was being moved. Did you keep the same filter media? Did you keep the filter media wet and in tank water? Something could have happened to the filter media during the move that caused the bacteria die off because it sounds like you are cycling now.

the ammonia blocker, was it liquid you added to the tank? If so that will be removed through the water changes you will be doing anyway.

I admit I'm no expert so hopefully someone with more experience will be along to help you soon, until then, water changes, water changes, water changes.

 

[CFC]

Theres no ammonia reading and usually where there is nitrite (NO2) there is ammonia (NH3) and ammonia is extreemly toxic. I'd recomend getting some liquid test kits for Ammonia and Nitrite as the test strips are next to useless to be honest.

I suspect the tank is going through a mini cycle from being moved and having the substrate messed with so you will need to do daily water changes until the ammonia and nitrite reach zero again. Nitrate isnt really a concern as it takes levels higher than 100ppm to be deadly and they will come down naturally with regular water changes and plants in the tank.

 

[simplespud]

Thanks to both of you for your replys. I will do a 50% water change tonight.
Will get hold of some liquid test kits - LFS only sell the strips so will have to see if I can get some online for next day delivery? Until then Im will keep doing the water changes each night until I get tests - would this be ok?
The plecs are large - not sure of the type but each must be 9-10 inch in length. Plus the catfish, which hides in the log most of the time isnt far off that. Your probabaly right about the over stock, but I think its going to be difficult to fit a bigger tank in.
The amonia blocker was a small green basket with pebble sized stones inside. Would you remove it straight away?
The filter was switched off and moved as is, with the water inside and I didnt replace any of the filter media. I have since cleaned the filter - approx 2 weeks ago - in tank water and only rinsed - all media that it came with went back in apart from the very fine white pad at the top - which the instructions say to replace every month as its so fine and difficult to clean properly without ripping tearing etc.

Again, thanks for your help. Will get a photo of the tank with hopefully one or both of the plecs in the frame so you can have a look.

Si

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Thanks to both of you for your replys. I will do a 50% water change tonight.
Will get hold of some liquid test kits - LFS only sell the strips so will have to see if I can get some online for next day delivery? Until then Im will keep doing the water changes each night until I get tests - would this be ok?
The plecs are large - not sure of the type but each must be 9-10 inch in length. Plus the catfish, which hides in the log most of the time isnt far off that. Your probabaly right about the over stock, but I think its going to be difficult to fit a bigger tank in.
The amonia blocker was a small green basket with pebble sized stones inside. Would you remove it straight away?
The filter was switched off and moved as is, with the water inside and I didnt replace any of the filter media. I have since cleaned the filter - approx 2 weeks ago - in tank water and only rinsed - all media that it came with went back in apart from the very fine white pad at the top - which the instructions say to replace every month as its so fine and difficult to clean properly without ripping tearing etc.

Again, thanks for your help. Will get a photo of the tank with hopefully one or both of the plecs in the frame so you can have a look.

Si

yes, look for the API Fresh water master test kit, should be about £15 online plus a few quid delivery, do 25% changes daily until you have a confirmed 0 reading for ammonia and nitrite

in a 30gal tank (obviously this will vary a bit depending on species of fish and dimensions of the tank) you don't want anything much bigger than 6". so 10" catfish need a bigger home, you'll either have to find room for a bigger tank or give them away to someone with space to look after them properly.

 

[OldMan47]

You said that you removed many of the ornaments and a lot of the substrate. Since much of your beneficial bacteria live in the substrate and on the decorations, you have started a mini-cycle. It sounds like there is enough of the original stuff in the tank and probably the original filter media so it should recover quickly but as others have said, you need to keep up the water changes to get nitrites and ammonia under control. I wish you all the best of luck as it sounds like you are trying your best to do right for these guys but you have gotten off on the wrong foot with decor.
Going forward, I would make smaller changes in decor , substrate or filter media to minimize the impacts on the bacterial populations. Your feeding list begs the question of whether you are feeding mostly the treats or are mainly feeding a balanced flake food. A balanced food with enough variety to boost the fishes health is usually better. While the cycle is running its course, it would be better to feed just the minimum of food for the fish for a few days, this will reduce the amount of nitrogen being introduced into the water.

 

[vinylman]

Most bacteria live in the filter and media, I wouldn't worry about disturbing substrate or decorations.

 

[simplespud]

Thanks to all of you for your responses.
I got the Liquid Test Kit through the post yesterday and carried out the four tests last night.

Amonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20/40 (I couldnt decide which the colour was closest to, very much in the middle)
PH 6.6

I did a 75% water change on Tuesday night and then another 40% on wednesday.
Although the test was great, all things considered, I still did a small water change last night
- 10-15% - not sure whether the Nitrate reading is a spike on its way up or coming down. The instructions said that a reading of 40 is ok though. Fingers crossed. Will keep doing the tests daily.

I also have 2 Nutrafin units on the way - to be used on the Tropical tank - hope to DIY my own for the Coldwater tank. With any luck they should arrive soon.

I am looking to re-home the plecs - they are too big as everyone has said, Im then hoping to get a better balance for the smaller fish. There are only 2 neons, which is causing a problem (Nipping) as well as 3 platys - I think 1 femail and two males (Again causing nipping).
I hope a better balance will keep them happier.
I noticed last night that one of the Neons had a couple of white spots - whether this is due to stress from poor water quality or the nipping - maybe a bit of both, not sure.

I have read that PH is best at 7 - is this a strict setting and does anyone know of a way to raise PH in the water? I dont want to start adding too many chemicals, especially at this stage, so any advice will help, whether its for know or for when the C02 units are in place and with some look the plants are blooming.

Again thanks to everyone for their advice. With any luck, one day i'll know enough about what im doing to help someone else!

Si

 

[simplespud]

You said that you removed many of the ornaments and a lot of the substrate. Since much of your beneficial bacteria live in the substrate and on the decorations, you have started a mini-cycle. It sounds like there is enough of the original stuff in the tank and probably the original filter media so it should recover quickly but as others have said, you need to keep up the water changes to get nitrites and ammonia under control. I wish you all the best of luck as it sounds like you are trying your best to do right for these guys but you have gotten off on the wrong foot with decor.
Going forward, I would make smaller changes in decor , substrate or filter media to minimize the impacts on the bacterial populations. Your feeding list begs the question of whether you are feeding mostly the treats or are mainly feeding a balanced flake food. A balanced food with enough variety to boost the fishes health is usually better. While the cycle is running its course, it would be better to feed just the minimum of food for the fish for a few days, this will reduce the amount of nitrogen being introduced into the water.

Nearly forget, I have been trying to give them a good alround balanced diet - flakes and veggies - Do you think I should give them mainly flakes with the veggies (cucumber,yams,peas) as a treat, maybe once or twice a week?
My coldwater fish started to get constipated when I fed them mainly/mostly flake but are fine now when I started to feed them veg every other day.


Si

 

[Miss Wiggle]

hiya those test readings are great sp panic over

40ppm nitrate is fine, comes out of the tap at 40ppm in a lot of the UK

might want to check what your tap water nitrate level is just so you know what you have to work with

leave well alone with pH. it's a tricky thing to adjust and if you start messing with it you're likely to just give yourself a headache and stress the fish out. unless you have fish which have specific requirements then most people advise to leave well alone.

the white spot is worrying, have you dealt with White Spot before? You'll need a good med for it and keep the water pristine. you're problem is going to be the plecs, catfish do not like white spot meds, treat the tank at full strength and you'll probably kill them. So you need to treat at half strength, this means the meds will be less effective too so you should treat straight away in the hope of stopping it before it takes hold.

re the food, the plecs will need veggies 2/3 times a week, other than that feed flake with weekly meaty treats like bloodworm or brine shrimp