Newbie Cycling Tank

[natehall]

Hi,

I am very new to keeping fish - I really didnt know where to start and so did what any self respecting person did and stupidly bought a 1-2 gallon tank and 3 goldfish - unfortunately 10 days later they died despite me buying every single potion I could find to try and help them. I did everything wrong - overfed the fish, didnt look at the symptoms and basically it is my fault they suffered (Sorry Shorty, Longy and Blacky)

So I lost the faith - left the tank to get overrun with algea and ended up cleaning it out 6 weeks on - ammonia level was off the scale and so I got rid of the water - cleaned everything out and left it to thoroughly dry for a week except the gravel which I kept submerged. I then cleaned the gravel, filled the tank with water and left it for 10 days as an old fishkeeper told me to do and bought 2 fish - red cap oranda's. The current tank is a 27 Litre Cube with a standard pump/filter, light and a small pump to create a few bubbles

Ammonia started to creep up last night - so I added some interpet ammonia remover which states ammonia may still be found - last night on the API test kit I have it was a very strong .25, now its somewhere in between .0 and .25 but it still showing traces. Using a test stick this is what I found the water readings to be - which if im honest confuse me as the tub the stick in says one thing is safe - but at those safe levels the fish died last time - im basically just panicking as I dont want these two fish to suffer or die as its both cruel and also as my 20 month old son already loves them to death and is informing everyone (even the postman!) about his 'ish

The readings are as follows:
Date 15-Aug
Time 22:10
Ammonia 0.25 * lighter than 0.25 but darker than 0 - estimated at about 0.15
No3 25
No2 1
GH 16od
KH 3od
pH 7.2
Cl2 0

I dont know what to do to get this tank cycled and am paranoid - as the fish keep swimming to the top one by one (about 30 secs every 5 mins or so) and trying to breath air (I know thats not the technical term but its frustrating not knowing the terms or the solutions!) - Now they are floating around 1-2 inches off the bottom with the light off - I assume this is sleeping but I dont know for sure - I have fed them a total of 4 times in the past 2 days but very small amounts as they seamed really quite hungry - all of the food was eaten without a trace within around 68-72 seconds (I timed it)

I have read I need to do a water change every other day - so I am assuming this would be tommorrow but I do not know the proper method for dechlorinating the water (Im guessing another factor in my previous's fish's death was I just panicked and just added tap safe and shoved them in it hoping for the best. This time I have a 1 5 Litre bottle of water with tap safe added to the correct quantity (1ml per 5l according to the container), but my tank is 5 1/2 UK gallons and as such - changing half the water as per some things I have read - would lead me requiring 2 1/4 gallons.

I am very confused and need some guidance - I have read so much online now and realise I should have done a fishless cycle - but as per many people I got impatient when my son saw the fish yesterday and got really excited - so I stupidly took the advice of the Fish shop... when I went in to ask about fishless cycling.

Any help will be appreciated - I hope this makes sense

Oh and Hi!

 

[fluttermoth]

Ok..first of all, I should warn you that your tank is far, far to small to keep goldies in, long term.

It will be ok for the next couple of weeks, but fish, like all animals, do most of their growing in the first few months of life (as a parent I'm guessing you know that children reach half their adult height around their second birthday), so you are going to have to rethink and either get smaller fish, (which are mostly tropicals, so you'd need to get a heater, but tropicals are not more difficult than goldfish; I think they're easier personally!) or a larger tank; 120l is a good size, although you may have to upgrade even that in a couple of years.

In the meantime, your aim in fish-in cycles to keep the ammonia (and nitrite too, but that probably won't start showing up for a week or two yet; you need the amonia processing bacteria first) below 0.25ppm at all times. Obviously it will creep up inbetween your water changes, so realistically that means doing enough water changes (and you can do more than one a day if needs be) to get the ammonia (and nitrite) reading zero on your test.

Don't worry too much about the dechlorinator; it's almost impossible to overdose the stuff, short of dropping in the whole bottle, so if you do add too much it's no big deal.

Hope that helps; do please post again if you have more questions or if I haven't explained things clearly enough

oh; and to the forum!

 

[natehall]

I know the tank is to small for long term use, I intend on expanding into something like a 6-8 foot tank moving forwards but couldnt justify it for a starter tank whilst I get used to the basics of looking after fish!

How much water should I aim to change each time - one of my concerns is I dont want to shock the fish with the cold tapwater - and I know it takes 24 hours to warm it up to the house temperature properly. I think i will be getting more gallon bottles to allow me to permanently have water warming up for the next few weeks. I will be doing a change around 7pm tonight when I get home from work and my son is in bed.

Just a couple more questions that spring to mind that I have foud so much conflicting information on!

How long does the tap safe dechlorinator take to dechlorinate the water?

Is it worth getting any of the filter start chemicals to help give my biological filter a kick start



Thank you once again.

 

[Miles_hot]

The dechlorinator is pretty much instant. To temp match the eater why not use aome hot water? You can remove a lot of water at once - basically all that needs RO ne left is height of the tallest fish so they can still swim in a normal upright manner.
With such a small tank you're making life a lot harder for yourself as stuff can do wrong a lot faster in a small tank. Have you considered ebay? You can get complete setups for small amounts of money.
The bottled bacteria don't appear to work going on the stories on this forum at least. Better I'd you can find someone to give you some mature media.
Urgently suggest that you read the stuff in the beginners section at the top of this forum.

 

[fluttermoth]

Agree with Miles; there's no need to have all those gallon bottles standing around! How do you think those of us with mutiple, large tanks manage? I'd have to have my living room floored with containers!

You don't have to temperature match that accuratly; just how it feels on your hand is fine; I quite often do 50% changes on my tropical tanks with straight cold water; as long as it goes in slowly it's not a problem (I trickle it back in with a hose )

As Miles says, the dechlorinator works pretty much instantly; just give it a quick stir and you're done. You can easily do 50, 60 even 80% water changes; as long as the fish have enough water to swim upright then that's fine. In a small tank, doing a fish-in cycle. I suggest you do at least 50% daily until you get sorted with some test kits (or at least a test for ammonia, which will be your enemy right now)

I'll reiterate again; you need a bigger tank as a matter of urgency. Small tanks are much, much harder to look after than larger ones, as larger bodies of water are more stable and toxins take longer to build up. I would never recommend anything under 20g for beginners, and especially for goldies which are messy fish and grow big very quickly.

 

[natehall]

Thanks everyone for your help - I have had my wife measuring up the shelf we keep the fish on so I know the maximum size tank which will fit there is - I will get a 50% water change done - I thought the tap safe took a while to work and not instant.

I have been reading so much on the internet I have found myself quite confused if im honest, I know we need to get a bigger tank and I have been looking for one this afternoon - its not necessarily the cost of the tank that is an issue (£1-150 doesnt worry me) its the cost of adjusting all the shelfing etc to fit it in!

 

[Louiseness]

Thanks everyone for your help - I have had my wife measuring up the shelf we keep the fish on so I know the maximum size tank which will fit there is - I will get a 50% water change done - I thought the tap safe took a while to work and not instant.

I have been reading so much on the internet I have found myself quite confused if im honest, I know we need to get a bigger tank and I have been looking for one this afternoon - its not necessarily the cost of the tank that is an issue (£1-150 doesnt worry me) its the cost of adjusting all the shelfing etc to fit it in!

Bear in mind that water weighs approximately 1 kilo a litre, and for goldfish you'll need a 4ft tank or so.....that's going to have to be a very strong shelf!

 

[Aqua Tom]

Thanks everyone for your help - I have had my wife measuring up the shelf we keep the fish on so I know the maximum size tank which will fit there is - I will get a 50% water change done - I thought the tap safe took a while to work and not instant.

I have been reading so much on the internet I have found myself quite confused if im honest, I know we need to get a bigger tank and I have been looking for one this afternoon - its not necessarily the cost of the tank that is an issue (£1-150 doesnt worry me) its the cost of adjusting all the shelfing etc to fit it in!

Bear in mind that water weighs approximately 1 kilo a litre, and for goldfish you'll need a 4ft tank or so.....that's going to have to be a very strong shelf!

+1 you will need a stand alone cabinet or some such thing, there is no way a shelf will hold it.


Tom

 

[fluttermoth]

Try looking for second hand; you should be able to pick up a tank with a stand.

 

[natehall]

ok, 50-60% water change completed -

Date 16-Aug
Time 09:04
Ammonia 0.25 under .25 over .1
No3 25 under 25 over 10
No2 0
GH 8d
KH 3D
pH 6.8
Cl2 0

These fish are so curious its unbelievable - my last 3 stayed away most of the time, whereas these 2 couldnt stay away from my hand - I really hope I can keep them alive and am looking for second hand 40-6ft tank - id rather not have a cabinet as my father is a time served joiner/carpenter and will make a custom piece to take the weight properly whilst incorporating it into a position where Thomas (My Son) cant damage the tank - and make it suit the house!

The fish are loving there fresh water

I am sorry if I ask stupid questions a lot of the time - but I am really getting quite attached to these two fish quite quickly and I have read so much information on the web (includign the beginners section on here) and am having a seriously difficult job seperating the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Miles_hot]

There aren't stupid questions, only sometimes people are too stupid to listen to the answer as it isn't what they want to hear so ask away to your heart's content

I strongly suggest getting a test kit ASAP - they can be delivered next day, and it means that you'll know what's happening to the water before the fish start reacting to it especially important when your attached to the fish

Miles

 

[natehall]

Hi,

I thought I had a test kit.... I have the API 7 in one strips and the ammonia - which is best and where can I get it from?

 

[fluttermoth]

Well, the liquid tests are better; the strips aren't that accurate; as you've already got a test for ammonia, which is the important one right now, I wouldn't worry too much.

Get one for nitrite when you have the money; nitrate, pH and hardness are so uncritical at your point in fishkeeping, you'll be alright with the strips for those.

 

[Aqua Tom]

Well, the liquid tests are better; the strips aren't that accurate; as you've already got a test for ammonia, which is the important one right now, I wouldn't worry too much.

Get one for nitrite when you have the money; nitrate, pH and hardness are so uncritical at your point in fishkeeping, you'll be alright with the strips for those.

+1


As soon as you can get an API master test kit, probably the most important thing you will purchase when fishkeeping.


Tom

 

[natehall]

I will get one ordered tonight...

the figures are identical to last night, both before and after water change so things arent getting any worse....

is there a more accurate way of reading ammonia rather than using drops? it seams a bit non-scientfific lol!