New To Discus, Advise Required

[michaelwgroves]

Thanks for all the advise, it's gonna be expensive if I need 5 - 8 as a start-up. My LFS has quoted £25 per fish........

Why would you particularily single out Silver Dollars as a no go?

 

[mike os]

Thanks for all the advise, it's gonna be expensive if I need 5 - 8 as a start-up. My LFS has quoted £25 per fish........

Why would you particularily single out Silver Dollars as a no go?

Do NOT GO TO YOUR LFS.... unless they are discus specialists.. 99.9% know zip about their real requirements... trust me on this

As you are in kent I would try Chens discus in london..... say I sent you. (not that I get anything for it LOL, just a good guy with great fish & excellent prices) just type the name into google.... He often has specials ...

 

[rabbut]

Like Mike says, most non-specialist LFS's don't know about the real requirements of this fish. I'm still a realative beginner with these fish, but I'm still considred the discus "specialist" at work, as nobody else has managed to keep them before for more than a few months... I perosnally believe that this is down to lack or research on their part (Colegues and non-specialist LFS staff in general) rather than them not being good keepers.

Silver dollars are fast moving. Larger discus associate fast moving fish with danger, so they leave the discus in a constant state of alert, under stress, leading ultimately to their demise... Youngh fish can be "taught" otherwise, but smaller fish are more work to maintain untill they get to 4"

All the best
Rabbut

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Like Mike says, most non-specialist LFS's don't know about the real requirements of this fish. I'm still a realative beginner with these fish, but I'm still considred the discus "specialist" at work, as nobody else has managed to keep them before for more than a few months... I perosnally believe that this is down to lack or research on their part (Colegues and non-specialist LFS staff in general) rather than them not being good keepers.

Silver dollars are fast moving. Larger discus associate fast moving fish with danger, so they leave the discus in a constant state of alert, under stress, leading ultimately to their demise... Youngh fish can be "taught" otherwise, but smaller fish are more work to maintain untill they get to 4"

All the best
Rabbut

I might add that not only are the Silver Dollars really fast moving, but because of this they can easily out compete the Discus for food.

 

[michaelwgroves]

I told my LFS I would not be ready for a few weeks. I'll google Chens shortly and check them out. I'll definetly mention your name.
I'm not fussed about losing the silver dolllars, two have gone already and I'm looking forward to the last two going as they are eating thier way through my plants.
Discus don't eat plants do they?

I need to get to the bottom of the water changes, like I say 450 litres (50%) is a lot of water every week. Surly you only need to do this if you are stocking to the max.
I think I'm well understocked for my tanks capacity. My parameters just do not change and my Amonia never goes above zero. Similarily as I have a lot of plants my nitrate is also low, say around 40ppm. There must be a way of determing what is needed rather than just throwing vast amounts of water at them?

 

[rabbut]

Feeding youngh discus will require 4-5 heavy feeds of high protien food every day. This makes lots of ammonia. For every 1ppm of ammonia you get arround 9 of nitrate, and disucs are nitrate intollerant, if the no3 gets above 25-50ppm you often start seeing breathing irregularities and symptoms of toxic shock forming. While youngh at least, 50% weekly will be minimum Some fish will tolerate higher, but it very much depends on breeding.

What is your nitrate reading from the tap? If it is more than about 25ppm, you may well need to use RO for waterchanges afterall..... There are a few nitrate removal resins that could be used, or HMA filters, but they won't remove it all, and there may be other things lurking in there along with nitrate.... I do't suppose you know the phosphate reading from the tap do you also? Though PO4 and N03 readings aren't the be-all-and-end-all they are a good indicator of overall toxin levels in the tank.... If phosthate levels isn't know, what is your waterboard? They have to publish stats in nitrate and phosphate (and many other things) on their website by law. They won't be accurate to your tap, but they will give an idea as to where levels are...

We have found out what is needed.... Lots of clean fresh water I assume on that tank you can get a hose in? Thats how I do mine....no mess, no heavy lifting and minimal fuss There are probibly other ways of getting round waterchanges, but are they cost effective? If they were, I suspect we would all be using those ways already, or at least know of them in the main stream... I bulk Buy waterchanditioner. A 150ishl waterchange costs me about 1-2p at most. Hardly a bank breaker, and deffinately better than a nitrate removal filter....

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Ace Of Spades]

Feeding youngh discus will require 4-5 heavy feeds of high protien food every day. This makes lots of ammonia. For every 1ppm of ammonia you get arround 9 of nitrate, and disucs are nitrate intollerant, if the no3 gets above 25-50ppm you often start seeing breathing irregularities and symptoms of toxic shock forming. While youngh at least, 50% weekly will be minimum Some fish will tolerate higher, but it very much depends on breeding.

What is your nitrate reading from the tap? If it is more than about 25ppm, you may well need to use RO for waterchanges afterall..... There are a few nitrate removal resins that could be used, or HMA filters, but they won't remove it all, and there may be other things lurking in there along with nitrate.... I do't suppose you know the phosphate reading from the tap do you also? Though PO4 and N03 readings aren't the be-all-and-end-all they are a good indicator of overall toxin levels in the tank.... If phosthate levels isn't know, what is your waterboard? They have to publish stats in nitrate and phosphate (and many other things) on their website by law. They won't be accurate to your tap, but they will give an idea as to where levels are...

We have found out what is needed.... Lots of clean fresh water I assume on that tank you can get a hose in? Thats how I do mine....no mess, no heavy lifting and minimal fuss There are probibly other ways of getting round waterchanges, but are they cost effective? If they were, I suspect we would all be using those ways already, or at least know of them in the main stream... I bulk Buy waterchanditioner. A 150ishl waterchange costs me about 1-2p at most. Hardly a bank breaker, and deffinately better than a nitrate removal filter....

All the best
Rabbut

Is this just for breeding discus?, If I was to say get adult discus or discus at about 5/6" would they need the same water levels as fry & Juvies. (Sorry for part high-jacking just really interested)

 

[rabbut]

You need a low KH for eggs to be fertile, but once hatched, some report better growth rates with a higher hardness and a pH arround 7-7.5 Breeding discus isn't something I've done though, thats just from reading, not experience

 

[michaelwgroves]

Checked my water parameters last night,

nitrate: 10
kH: 7
gH: 10
PO4: 0.25

Water is a little hard, although I have not been using RO water recently as I have been trying to promote plant growth after the Silver Dollars wrecked my plants. 2 Now gone, 2 to go when I find homes. I'm gonna start usinmg RO water again to bring down the hardnes.

Rabbut, what water conditioner do you buy, that seems very cheap. I'm using Tetra Aquasafe. I purchased 5 litres a while back. I think it cost me about £50.

So I'm thinking my parametrers should be okay, just got to get rid of a few fish previously recommended, then check rest of my poipulation are okay with the raised temp?

 

[mike os]

if you are lightly stocked then you can obviously change less water

Chens have a lot of deals on at the minute... well worth a look

 

[michaelwgroves]

Have Chens got a web site, also, what water conditioners do other Discus keeps use?

EDIT: Found the web site http/www.chensdiscus.co.uk

 

[mike os]

Have Chens got a web site, also, what water conditioners do other Discus keeps use?

EDIT: Found the web site [URL="http/www.chensdiscus.co.uk"]http/www.chensdiscus.co.uk[/URL]

thats the one

personally I dont dechlor.... but i have a large system or two.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

I use Stress Coat, and other similar products. Doesn't really matter too much, all of them do the same thing.

 

[michaelwgroves]

Surly you need to add something for the plants if your using 100% RO

 

[rabbut]

I use API water conditioner NOT stress coat. Just done the actual costing. A 500ml bottle costs £10 and I need 2ml at each waterchange. That costs 4p per 50% waterchange (150l in each waterchange) Aqua safe is a good conditioner, but it isn't very strong... And it cost more round my way ml for ml... My costs will actually be less due to a 20% staff discount from work though...

Many on here run their tanks without dechlorinating the water. They often see no negative effects from doing so, but they do occasonally report issues with no logical explanation other than the water wasn't conditioned. There is a lot of debate as a result as to whether it is actually a requirement to condition water before use. I find that with conditioner so cheap, and the fact I'm keeping expencive fish that I am very attached to, combine to make me think "why take the risk?" Fact of the matter is many take the risk and don't see any ill effects as a result, not immediately at least.

I have read somewhere that the alovera in the stress coat can caurse issues with the discus. Most whom use it with discus don't have a problem, but again I figure "why take the risk?"

All the best
Rabbut

EDIT to add; Just seen your last reply regarding RO. No, you cannot use it neet, as it will kill the fish sooner or later. You need to use a mineral retopic to replace the minerals stripped from the water. This is quite fidely and only something you want to be doing if you understand water chemistory IMO