New tank and major loss of fish.

[ctmcquoid2016]

For the record. This old tank I’m referencing... is almost 9 months old.

I posted the numbers in a reply. At this point we’ve lost all fish, except the pleco and rope fish. The pleco isn’t looking good... and all the snails, even the trumpets have died. We did a water change last night again.
I’m stumped. The issue is that we have to move at the end of the month.

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

That just seems so unexplainable. It's kind of like it would nice if you could take the water to the vet and they would run a full scan of tests on it just like they do for blood. I wonder if the local water treatment plant ever does anything like that? I know one of our universities offers soil testing for free since we're an agricultural state. It just has to be something got in there that you didn't intend to let in. Have you run tests on just the tap water without any treatment? Here in Topeka ours always has 1.0-1.5 ppm of Ammonia in it leftover from the ammonia they use when they treat chlorine/chloramines. Now I don't believe a level of 1.5 would kill fish but who knows. I know one of the reasons I'll never test zero for ammonia immediately after a water change is because of the ammonia in the tap water (the API test picks up Ammonium (non-toxic) as well as Ammonia and of course most water conditioners turn Ammonia into Ammonium) I don't know why I seem to be the only one that can't seem to get rid of the Ammonium even after doing water changes multiple days in a row except to blame it on the water quality of our city Water adding ammonia as soon as I try to get rid of it. It's been suggested that I get R/O water converter (and they do make them as inexpensive countertop models, which would be great if I actually had any countertop left - I guess the coffee pot and toaster could live on the floor)

I am so sorry for your loss!

 

[Metalhead88]

Numbers as of today. 40% water change last night, no salt added, stress coat & tap water conditioner used on water.

Nitrite - 0ppm
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm
Ph - 7.6
High range Ph - 7.4.

What test kit is this? Since nitrate is a byproduct of the cycle, you will almost always have some... But the idea is to keep it below 15.

Somethings weird about those numbers.

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[ctmcquoid2016]

That just seems so unexplainable. It's kind of like it would nice if you could take the water to the vet and they would run a full scan of tests on it just like they do for blood. I wonder if the local water treatment plant ever does anything like that? I know one of our universities offers soil testing for free since we're an agricultural state. It just has to be something got in there that you didn't intend to let in. Have you run tests on just the tap water without any treatment? Here in Topeka ours always has 1.0-1.5 ppm of Ammonia in it leftover from the ammonia they use when they treat chlorine/chloramines. Now I don't believe a level of 1.5 would kill fish but who knows. I know one of the reasons I'll never test zero for ammonia immediately after a water change is because of the ammonia in the tap water (the API test picks up Ammonium (non-toxic) as well as Ammonia and of course most water conditioners turn Ammonia into Ammonium) I don't know why I seem to be the only one that can't seem to get rid of the Ammonium even after doing water changes multiple days in a row except to blame it on the water quality of our city Water adding ammonia as soon as I try to get rid of it. It's been suggested that I get R/O water converter (and they do make them as inexpensive countertop models, which would be great if I actually had any countertop left - I guess the coffee pot and toaster could live on the floor)

I am so sorry for your loss!

Thanks!
The water was my big question as well, and to be honest... that water test kit, the ammonia always looks like there might be 0 - .5, but that’s nothing that should hurt a tank. Honestly, I think there may have been an initial spike.. and then it’s evening out. However. I do think that the bacteria from the other tank, that was housed on the gravel and decor that my husband added (with good intentions ).. might have been it. I think it was just too much change... maybe. Idk it’s hard to guess. I just hope we don’t loose the pleco or the rope fish.
Now the question becomes - how do we set up to add the additional fish? About 8 rasporas and scissor tails... 2 clown loaches, 3 neon tetras and 12 cories. The plan was an eclectic tropical, river style community tank. We have a fan for current, and we wanted to have two filters added for support. (The two fluvals from both 20s) this other filter will be added new.. hopefully adding the other fish slowly will help.

 

[ctmcquoid2016]

What test kit is this? Since nitrate is a byproduct of the cycle, you will almost always have some... But the idea is to keep it below 15.

Somethings weird about those numbers.

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It’s the main kit from Petco, that has all of the specific products within it to test. I’ve seen information on other threads to maybe not trust it? I work all day, throughout the day and unfortunately can’t get the water tested until the weekend. I will say that we continue to get those same numbers every time. So it’s consistent at least! I confirmed with my husband the filter was added with all the same media and water from the previous tank, so it shouldn’t have cycled that much, if at all. I mean... the damn trumpet snails are dead and we had an infestation haha. I’m really confused.

The issue is, we still have other fish to add by the end of the month. We need this tank “healthy” by the time we move so we can set it up at the new house. I wouldn’t even know where to begin figuring this out. It sucks. We’ve had these tanks running since this time last year, no issues what so ever!! A few losses here and there due to misc issues of illness with a fish or two, but nothing major. Now we’ve lost all 5 glass cats, and all 5 long finned tetras. I have a feeling the pleco won’t last long. The front of her fins are red. Seems bacterial or fungal to me. But it could very well just be major stress.

 

[Metalhead88]

It’s the main kit from Petco, that has all of the specific products within it to test. I’ve seen information on other threads to maybe not trust it? I work all day, throughout the day and unfortunately can’t get the water tested until the weekend. I will say that we continue to get those same numbers every time. So it’s consistent at least! I confirmed with my husband the filter was added with all the same media and water from the previous tank, so it shouldn’t have cycled that much, if at all. I mean... the damn trumpet snails are dead and we had an infestation haha. I’m really confused.

The issue is, we still have other fish to add by the end of the month. We need this tank “healthy” by the time we move so we can set it up at the new house. I wouldn’t even know where to begin figuring this out. It sucks. We’ve had these tanks running since this time last year, no issues what so ever!! A few losses here and there due to misc issues of illness with a fish or two, but nothing major. Now we’ve lost all 5 glass cats, and all 5 long finned tetras. I have a feeling the pleco won’t last long. The front of her fins are red. Seems bacterial or fungal to me. But it could very well just be major stress.

Bringing the filter over to this tank should have meant the tank didn't have to cycle.

Your first course of action is to test your water with a reliable test kit like api liquid. I think I've said it already, but the test strips are very innacurate. If you bring a sample to petsmart or petco they will test with stips and provide you with most likely innacurate results.

After you really figure out if your tank has cyled or not, you can start to move forward with other possibilities.

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[seangee]

Now the question becomes - how do we set up to add the additional fish? About 8 rasporas and scissor tails... 2 clown loaches, 3 neon tetras and 12 cories. The plan was an eclectic tropical, river style community tank

Please do not consider clown loach. These need to be in a group of at least 6 and require a 6 foot tank. They are very sensitive to poor water quality so would not survive in your tank as it is now. FWIW your rope fish also requires a 200 litre tank so you should consider re-homing him.

 

[Metalhead88]

Please do not consider clown loach. These need to be in a group of at least 6 and require a 6 foot tank. They are very sensitive to poor water quality so would not survive in your tank as it is now. FWIW your rope fish also requires a 200 litre tank so you should consider re-homing him.

Seangee is absolutely right. And just to add, clown loaches grow well over a foot long and have a lifespan of 20 years or more when taken care of correctly.

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[Naughts]

If you have an infestation of trumpet snails and they all died wouldn't that cause an ammonia spike in itself?

Before moving any more fish I recommend lots of water changes and gravel cleaning and regular testing, maybe with the second opinion on the tests.

I don't know if you were routinely using stress guard before this problem but you might research it before adding more because people say that aloe Vera can coat fish gills and cause health problems, if that's true the double dose may have been the issue.

Best wishes with the remaining fish.

 

[Metalhead88]

And yes, stress coat is likely not great for fish.

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[ctmcquoid2016]

Please do not consider clown loach. These need to be in a group of at least 6 and require a 6 foot tank. They are very sensitive to poor water quality so would not survive in your tank as it is now. FWIW your rope fish also requires a 200 litre tank so you should consider re-homing him.

We are in that process. Unfortunately they are all rescues from someone else who wanted to give them to petco, and I refused to let them. For right now... the rope fish has been doing great on her own, at least until I can find a home for her. The loaches, for right now have to go somewhere bigger.. and until I find a home, they have to go into the tank. However. They love schooling with my cories! They all run around together! Haha.
We’ve been talking to people in the aquatic community out here to get these fish to a better place. Trust me, my heart won’t let me not do right by these guys...

 

[ctmcquoid2016]

Bringing the filter over to this tank should have meant the tank didn't have to cycle.

Your first course of action is to test your water with a reliable test kit like api liquid. I think I've said it already, but the test strips are very innacurate. If you bring a sample to petsmart or petco they will test with stips and provide you with most likely innacurate results.

After you really figure out if your tank has cyled or not, you can start to move forward with other possibilities.

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The kit I used had different bottles with liquid and I had to fill the tubes with the tank water. It might be api... I’ll confirm when I get home.
The other place I am going is a community aquatic store that we go to for water and frozen foods.
Ugh. Well hopefully I can find a place that is accurate.

 

[ctmcquoid2016]

In

If you have an infestation of trumpet snails and they all died wouldn't that cause an ammonia spike in itself?

Before moving any more fish I recommend lots of water changes and gravel cleaning and regular testing, maybe with the second opinion on the tests.

I don't know if you were routinely using stress guard before this problem but you might research it before adding more because people say that aloe Vera can coat fish gills and cause health problems, if that's true the double dose may have been the issue.

Best wishes with the remaining fish.

Interesting. I haven’t read that before but I’ll look into it!! Thank you! By infestation I mean, our loaches and Assassin snails love them. So they are actually kept at bay haha but yes. As they pass, I pull them out. We are crazy meticulous with our tanks, and the fish we’ve rescued. Thanks for your help.

 

[Metalhead88]

The kit I used had different bottles with liquid and I had to fill the tubes with the tank water. It might be api... I’ll confirm when I get home.
The other place I am going is a community aquatic store that we go to for water and frozen foods.
Ugh. Well hopefully I can find a place that is accurate.

It's most likely api. It's one of the only and also best liquid test kit.

Interesting.

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[Byron]

The fact that all the snails died points to something toxic in the water, and not likely a cycling issue. Your test numbers would support this.

Is there any chance of something toxic entering the tank? Consider the tank itself (if it was cleaned with something like strong bleach the residue could be one factor), also any materials placed in the tank that might have been somehow contaminated (substrate, filter, filter media, wood, rock, decor).

What additives were used? Which conditioner and hoiw much, and any other additive. This may have been mentioned previously, but it won't hurt to repeat it, with amounts. Some of these can be deadly if combined.

As for the other tank of fish, I would leave them as they are and not use this "death" tank until you have found the likely issue.