New questions! Second fish, Snails (both desirable and undesirable)?

Chu'Wuti

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After two months of cycling our 75-gallon aquarium with only plants, we finally bought fish and shrimp. We now have three pearl gouramis and 10 itty-bitty blue shrimp. (They are so tiny that they are nearly lost in our big tank! but they are eating a lot of debris quite happily.)

Challenge 1: I've realized that my plan to include neon tetras may not be such a good idea, as their pH and temps may be too restrictive for this tank. The cardinal tetras _seem_ more forgiving in pH and temps, but I keep reading that they are 'for experts only'. Alternatives we're considering include the Sunburst Orange Longfin Tetra, Head and Tail Light Tetras, or Green Kubotai Rasboras. Thoughts, suggestions? Eventually, I also want to include marble hatchetfish.

Challenge 2: My husband saw a Rabbit Snail and fell in love with it. I'm finding two potential issues. a) Different sources state different temperature ranges for this snail; we're keeping our temperature at 80 degrees F, so depending on which source we consider, this is either too hot or just fine. b) Different sources state different pH ranges for this snail. Mostly we're seeing recommended pH values of 7.8-8.2 or even up to 8.5; these ranges are higher than what we're maintaining for the fish, and higher than what we _want_ to maintain (certainly too high for the hatchetfish or most of the tetras or rasbora). Thoughts, suggestions?

Challenge 3: We have a lot of snails that came in on the plants. I considered an assassin snail, but I'm not enamored. I'm thinking of just trying to net them every time I see them to remove them.
 
Challenge 1: Neon tetras are not “expert only”. They are actually very easy to keep. What is your pH and GH? Also, what is your temperature?

Challenge 2: Here are the basic water requirements for rabbit snails:
Water Temperature: 76 – 84 Degrees Fahrenheit
Aquarium pH: 7.2 – 7.5, to avoid shell erosion
Lighting: Normal community lighting to semi-dim conditions

(This is a really good article. It explained the total care of this snail in depth:https://www.aquariumcarebasics.com/freshwater-snails/rabbit-snail/)

Challenge 3: What kind of snails do you have? (If you don’t know, post a picture so I can figure it out.)

Contrary to popular belief, most snails are very beneficial to a tank.
 
Challenge 1: I've realized that my plan to include neon tetras may not be such a good idea, as their pH and temps may be too restrictive for this tank. The cardinal tetras _seem_ more forgiving in pH and temps, but I keep reading that they are 'for experts only'. Alternatives we're considering include the Sunburst Orange Longfin Tetra, Head and Tail Light Tetras, or Green Kubotai Rasboras. Thoughts, suggestions? Eventually, I also want to include marble hatchetfish.

Unfortunately there is a considerable amount of inaccurate, misleading and spurious "advice" in this hobby, and one has to be certain of the source before relying on anything. For data on a species of fish, Seriously Fish is the premier site. There are equally good specialist sites, like Planet Catfish for Siluriformes ("catfish"), Loaches Online, Corydoras World, and others I cannot remember at the moment. And of course asking on this forum.

With gourami which are quiet sedate fish, you donot want any other species that are active swimmers. Nor do you want any that are even slightly inclined to fin nip. That elimninates the Sunburst Orange Longfin Tetra, assuming it is the "glofish" developed from the natural species Gymnocorymbus ternetzi, commonly called Black Widow or Black Skirt Tetra. This is a feisty fish that will usually fin nip sedate fish, and these inherent traits are in the species' DNA so they carry over to the artificial "glo" fish. While I am on this fish, many in this hobby do not support the development of such abnormalities; they are illegal in the EU and the UK I believe. Only by not acquiring them can we hope to reverse the present-day trend to "make" weird fish, some of which are inhumane to say the least.

The Head and Tail Light Hemigrammus ocellifer should be OK. Acquire a decent number, I would aim for 15-20 in a 75g. This aside from allowing the fish to be "normal" in their interactions and thus more interesting, also can prevent any risk of fin nipping. Many smallish shoaling fish can be enticed into nipping the fins of sedate fish if kept in too small a shoal of their own. A closely related species, Hemigrammus pulcher, is a nice little gem if you can find it. Either in 15-20.

Microdevario kubotai (green kubotai rasbora) is not a good idea here, first in such a large tank (they can get "lost") but also with largish gourami. "Nano" sized fish tend not to do well in these conditions and are best kept together depending upon species.

Paracheirodon axelrodi, cardinal tetra, has no issues. It does prefer warmer water than the neon tetra (P. innesi) but pH is basically the same. It would be a better fit with the gourami which also like warmish water, warmer than the neon at least.

Hatchetfish should be OK, my only caution would be if the gourami take a dislike to other fish invading the surface area. I've never had these two together, maybe other members can provide comments from their experiences. Individual fish in a species can sometimes not exactly fit the mold so to speak.
 
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PhoenixKingZ, you said, "Neon tetras are not “expert only”. They are actually very easy to keep. What is your pH and GH? Also, what is your temperature?"

I'm sorry my discussion in Challenge 1 was unclear; I meant to say that _cardinal tetras_ are being described as "expert only." To answer your other questions:

--Our pH is running at 7.4-7.6, though that will begin to change now that we've added fish. My husband is using a pH meter to check.
--GH is 150 ppm/dGH 8.43.
--We are keeping the aquarium at 80 degrees F.

The research I've done indicates that Neon Tetras prefer it cooler, and I see that Byron has confirmed that above.

Regarding the rabbit snails: It has been interesting to read different sources' information; in several, we read that Rabbit Snails prefer 7.8 - 8.5 pH. We don't want to maintain a pH that high, so that seemed to take Rabbit Snails off our list. Thank you for sharing that source and explaining it's a good one; my husband will be happy!

Regarding the snails that came with the plants: there seem to be two different types. They are very small; though I've tried to get photos, they aren't worth posting here. I'll try again tomorrow.
----------------------------

Byron, you said that the longfin tetra about which I asked is a "glofish" developed from "the natural species Gymnocorymbus ternetzi, commonly called Black Widow or Black Skirt Tetra. This is a feisty fish that will usually fin nip sedate fish, and these inherent traits are in the species' DNA so they carry over to the artificial "glo" fish. While I am on this fish, many in this hobby do not support the development of such abnormalities; they are illegal in the EU and the UK I believe."

THANK YOU for that information--I had no idea it was a "designer morph" (as we call them in the snake breeding world). I had seen several other fish that I could readily identify as having fake coloring; I've also heard that some fish are injected with dyes to give them unusual coloring. I would NOT want to buy them! It seems cruel to inject them with dye, and from snake breeders, I am well aware that many designer morphs can be weaker than their natural normal counterparts. So the longfish tetra is off my list as much for its artificiality as for its nippy nature!

Thank you also for the information about Seriously Fish and for the reassurance that there is a lot of inaccurate info out there--both my husband and I were wondering why the Cardinal Tetras were being described as difficult when the Neons seem to have narrower tolerances for water chemistry and temps!

We will be looking for either the Cardinal Tetras or Hemigrammus ocellifer or H. pulcher.

Thank you both so much for all the information and suggestions!

Sandy
 
Mots snails are actually very beneficial to a tank.
Most are not, like bladder snails, bladders are beneficial in some way but they breed like crazy and are hard to to remove due to eggs.
I have an outbreak in my 33 gallon tank and I'm seeing one by one, at least they still are young enough so they won't lay eggs for now.
 
Most are not, like bladder snails, bladders are beneficial in some way but they breed like crazy and are hard to to remove due to eggs.
I have an outbreak in my 33 gallon tank and I'm seeing one by one, at least they still are young enough so they won't lay eggs for now.
MTS snails are good, because they are awesome scavengers. They also turn up the sand and prevents pockets of air from forming.

Pond snails are good because they stay small and produce very little waste. A lot of people think that snails are pests, but in reality, they are quite helpful.
 
MTS snails are good, because they are awesome scavengers. They also turn up the sand and prevents pockets of air from forming.

Pond snails are good because they stay small and produce very little waste. A lot of people think that snails are pests, but in reality, they are quite helpful.
I should get rid of my bladders before the 12 snails turn my tank walls into snail walls.

MTS snails, cories mess with sand constantly so they do prevent pockets of air from forming in the sand.

I do think of them as pests due to their constant breeding and their asexual way of breeding and crossing my boundaries.
 
To quote @Byron:
Snails do eat algae, and as well as anything when we are talking the common "unseen" algae. Small snails like pond snails, bladder snails and Malaysian Livebearing snails will easily handle this, plus the benefit they eat all organics including fish excrement which breaks it down faster for the various bacteria to deal with. These mentioned willnot harm healthy plants, they eat decaying/dead plant matter.
 
DEATH TO SNAILS

ROFL!

I did NOT mean to start an argument about snails, LOL!

I have to confess, I'll be removing most of what we have. We have determined that we have pond snails--and they have been laying eggs on the glass--and we have at least one Malaysian Trumpet Snail.

The pond snails are going as we can catch them.
 
ROFL!

I did NOT mean to start an argument about snails, LOL!

I have to confess, I'll be removing most of what we have. We have determined that we have pond snails--and they have been laying eggs on the glass--and we have at least one Malaysian Trumpet Snail.

The pond snails are going as we can catch them.

Some aquarists do not like snails, period. That's OK. But let's be clear on the actual benefits/detriments. I have dozens, probably hundreds in my tanks, and I am happy to see them because I know they are aiding the biological system.

On the detriment side, snails will eat fish eggs, though it is far more likely that other fish will eat the eggs long before the snails ever find them. But in breeding tanks, it is worth keeping this in mind.

These small snails like Malaysian Livebearing Snails, acute bladder snails and pond snails do not eat healthy plants.

Snails eat organics. They are the only (non-bacteria) critters that will eat fish excrement, all of it, which breaks it down faster so the various bacteria can then do their job. This means these snails are not adding to the bioload because they only eat what is already there. They eat algae, though not sufficiently to deal with "problem" algae, but along the way they do help. They keep plant leaves clean; otos and some similar herbivore fish do this too, admittedly, but perhaps not so thoroughly overall.

I consider small harmless snails to be my friends in the aquarium; they do jobs that I as the aquarist could never manage.
 
Some aquarists do not like snails, period. That's OK. But let's be clear on the actual benefits/detriments. I have dozens, probably hundreds in my tanks, and I am happy to see them because I know they are aiding the biological system.
So if I have about 12, maybe less maybe more, bladder snails should I let them lay eggs and hatch and practically let them do their business and crossing boundaries with me?
Their only cons are, breeding rapidly like rabbits, and when the old snails (bladders) die, their bodies get eaten and then only their shells are left behind.... creepy.
 
So if I have about 12, maybe less maybe more, bladder snails should I let them lay eggs and hatch and practically let them do their business and crossing boundaries with me?
Their only cons are, breeding rapidly like rabbits, and when the old snails (bladders) die, their bodies get eaten and then only their shells are left behind.... creepy.

These small "pest" snails will reproduce so long as food is available. So that is another "benefit" many do not seem to realize...if there were not so many organics in the tank, the snails would have no food and starve. So large numbers means the tank is overstocked/overfed/not maintained adequately.
 

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