New Member, New Tank, Possible Problem, Help Appreciated!

[Awesomeguns]

Hi guys,

This is my first post so please go easy and apologies if this is in the wrong section!

I have kept tropical freshwater fish on and off for about 20 years and after a long gap have recently invested in a new tank, partly because I have an 18 week old baby daughter who is intrigued by fish whenever I take her to one of the may LFS in the area! This has also provided justification to my wife who started as a fish sceptic but she is slowly being converted!

I have gone for a 120 litre lake malawi species tank and set it up around 4 weeks ago. All was going well - I have setup the tank with plenty of rocks and caves with lots of hiding places, PH is currently about 8.2 and general hardness is around 16. I have achieved this by using a few ocean rocks obtained from my fave LFS and the use of coral gravel mixed with ordinary gravel so the substrate is not too bright. I have a couple of plastic plants concealing the heater and internal filter. I am using an undergravel filter along with an internal which has biological, mechanical and chemical filtration. It also uses a venturi to spray air back so I am happy the filtration and aeration is adequate. I have chosen the fish I wish to keep and was about to purchase them this weekend as I am happy the tank has bedded in.

Now the problem - my LFS kindly gave me some gravel form an existing tank to kick start the undergravel filter which has inevitably introduced some "unwanted" aqautic life into the tank. I have noticed the last couple of days a few tiny snails in the aquarium which I am not overly concerned about. However I have also noticed what I can only describe as very small worms, almost clear, very thin and about 50mm in length. They seem to be fighting the current of the tank with what I assume are their noses in the air. They are hard to spot and I have seen about 4 in the tank - now I am a bit worried as I am not sure what they are and am concerned they are parasites and will be harmful to the fish. Can anyone give me some advice on what they may be and if an issue then what course of action I should take. I am pretty sure the gravel was the source of the "worms" as the rocks I used have all been left in boiling water for about 30 minutes. The LFS I use is the best in the area - I have visted over 30 but this one has over 200 tanks with excellent examples of fish. They have a section dedicated to african cichlids with over 30 tanks and all their fish are quarantined so I think I may have been a bit unlucky!

Apologies for the mini essay and any help is much appreciated!

 

[oakes]

Sorry i can't really help i haven't seen anything that fits that description, they are too big for planaria and don't sound like stray blackworms that can live for some time in substrate. But why not call the LFS where they came from? They might be aware of them.

 

[Awesomeguns]

Sorry i can't really help i haven't seen anything that fits that description, they are too big for planaria and don't sound like stray blackworms that can live for some time in substrate. But why not call the LFS where they came from? They might be aware of them.

Thanks for your reply - after extensive searching and viewing of pictures I am pretty sure they are planaria. I am a bit baffled as to why they would survive in a tank with no food in and no fish but I guess they are not a problem. I will check with the LFS but if they are planaria then I will just keep an eye on water quality and ammonia levels.

 

[shelaghfishface]

i recently had a similar problem when i bought a new oscar, i was told that it was due to over feeding at the LFS so u may want to mention it on your next visit, as far as im aware they dont cause any problems in the tank, infact my oscar cleaned them all up.

ooh forgot to add, congratulations on your daughter,, she already sounds like a fishkeeper in the making

 

[Awesomeguns]

i recently had a similar problem when i bought a new oscar, i was told that it was due to over feeding at the LFS so u may want to mention it on your next visit, as far as im aware they dont cause any problems in the tank, infact my oscar cleaned them all up.

ooh forgot to add, congratulations on your daughter,, she already sounds like a fishkeeper in the making

Thanks shelaghfishface - I am hoping my cichlids will gobble them up when they get into their new home but I think the species I am keeping prefer a vegetarian diet so we shall see!!

Thanks for the congrats too! Little Lily May loves staring into the fish tank even when there are no fish in there, I am hoping she will want the tank in her own room when she gets a bit older so I can justify a new bigger tank for myself ;-)

 

[shelaghfishface]

I am hoping she will want the tank in her own room when she gets a bit older so I can justify a new bigger tank for myself ;-)

yes,, thats the way !! both my son and daughter were doing their own tank maintence by the ages of 4 & 5 ( supervised with cups and bowls) but i 100% agree with you, start children as young as possible and they will aquire an ever lasting love and appreciation for all animals ( cant garantee spiders) and daddy will have to spoil his little girl rotten hence there being no room for the new sofa that mummy wants due to the 6ft tank that daddy and Lily just bought between them.
you have my respect already !
shelagh xxx

 

[Mr Bliss]

Sounds like some kind of nematode. I've occasionally seen these swimming around after my cichlids had done some heavy digging. I believe they're basically good for your tank (milling about in the substrate, ensuring circulation), but huge swarms of them might be indicative of overfeeding or a toxic substrate (they'll leave the substrate if it runs out of oxygen or if there's copper or other toxic chemicals in it). So basically the same as with seeing lots of planaria on the glass, or trumpet snails climbing out of the tank in broad daylight.

 

[Syphoniera]

Further to, and complementary with, Mr Bliss' identification, I've copied part of a previous post covering some info I found of interest, in case it may be of any help.

The nematodes/worms in your tank may even be the survivors of live foods previously fed...

[URL="http/www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/...es-in-fish.html"]http/www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/...es-in-fish.html[/URL]

... Detritus Worms (from the group of worms called Oligochaetes, sub group naidid worms) are often misidentified in the aquarium hobby as Planaria without close inspection by many internet articles such as about.com.
Many of these worms are accidentally introduced by live plants, gravel (especially in the case of common Detritus Worms) live fish foods, and even brought in with fish transfers.
(Click picture to enlarge)
Many not familiar with Detritus worms will label these as everything form midge larvae, Planaria to baby earthworms, of which none is true. They are very common and most often seen during vacuuming and other cleaning procedures.
These worms generally are not a problem, however high numbers of particular species can indicate low oxygen levels and low filter productivity, which very often suggests some degree of pollution caused by poor cleaning procedures, over crowding, over feeding and poor filtration
Please reference these sources for even more identification (and further information so as to dispel the internet aquarium myth that these are Planaria):
Planaria
Aquatic Life: Worms ,
Oligochaeta Worms
Aquatic Worms ...

Plus there's more info below that, if you care to check out the article.

The 'Planaria' site was down when I checked, but the next given:

[URL="http/www.townoflakelure.com/aquatic_worms.htm"]http/www.townoflakelure.com/aquatic_worms.htm[/URL]

... Another group of oligochaetes are the naidid worms. These are common both in running and standing water. Like tubifex worms, most are sediment dwellers, but some are found among aquatic plants. Naidids feed on detritus, algae, plants, planktonic creatures, and some are snail parasites. While not always an indicator of poor water quality, high numbers of particular species can indicate low oxygen levels and low productivity, which very often suggests some degree of pollution. ...

Note: the types of such critters we get typically seem to come in on plants.
The ones I have now always appear to be feeding on algae or invisible critters on the glass...
Ones that came in on some new plants perhaps a couple of years ago rapidly virtually destroyed the lot, and I wasn't rid of those until I actually ditched, rather than bleach-dipping, the remaining shreds of all plants after a second literal sterilization of the tank.
We might very well get different types every time they slip in, as seems to have occurred with me.


And for anyone finding such things as these described below in their tanks, as some have, and been concerned:
[URL="http/ebiomedia.com/prod/BOanelids.html"]http/ebiomedia.com/prod/BOanelids.html[/URL]

... and Tubifex, often found in clumps with heads buried in the muck, tails waving above. ...

... With well over 13,000 living species, the Phylum Annelida is a highly successful line of invertebrate life dating back over 540 million years. Their elongate, segmented body plan and other body features have allowed annelids to specialize at burrowing through substrates, and to radiate into other ecological niches. ...

... Hermaphroditic mating is the rule in oligochaetes such as earthworms. ...

(So people can quite panicking that the presence of critters must have been 'caused' by non-existent filth and neglect of their tanks, or being perplexed as to how they propagate in what should be a clean tank.
Like algae/cyanobacteria, they're simply highly successful at filling whatever environmental niche exists...)



And from another link given:
[URL="http/lakes.chebucto.org/ZOOBENTH/BENTHOS/xxv.html"]http/lakes.chebucto.org/ZOOBENTH/BENTHOS/xxv.html[/URL]

... Aquatic worms can be distinguished by:

Body colour may be red, tan, brown or black.
Cylindrical, thin (some are very thin), segmented body may be upto 5 inches.
May have short bristles or hairs (setae) that help with movement (usually not visible).
Moves by stretching and pulling its body along in a worm-like fashion. ...


... The classical "pollution indicators" are Tubifex tubifex and Limnodrilus hoffmeisteri. Both species are able to survive periods of anoxia, such as occurs in the hypolimnia of eutrophic lakes during the summer and winter months. Most tubificids have erythrocruorin, a red blood pigment, that effectively extracts oxygen dissolved in the water. The densities of T. tubifex and L. hoffmeisteri in sewage lagoons may be so high that the bottom appears pink.

Though, not all tubificids are pollution indicators. Some species, such as Tubifex kessleri and Peloscolex variegatum, require well oxygenated waters and reach their greatest densities in oligotrophic lakes. ...

Note the inaccuracy of the generalization that such worms occur only in conjunction with pollution - and apply this more widely, to those varying types found in aquaria as well.
Just because such worms are able to tolerate high levels of pollution doesn't necessarily mean that they require them to survive.
More, perhaps, that the competition disappears...

For those confused by any such creatures increasing in tanks which are carefully cleaned and fed, if they're not eating our plants, and are typically visible on the glass, we may comfort ourselves with the thought that they may be eating our algae.


and to return to; [URL="http/www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/...es-in-fish.html"]http/www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/...es-in-fish.html[/URL]
Whiteworms

... These are worms commonly used in feeding for larger fish; for instance, Gouramis and Cory cats love Whiteworms. Microworms (which are Nematodes not Annelids as are Whiteworms) are used for fry.
What we typically refer to as a "white worm" in the aquarium hobby is a segmented round worms (Annelids) that are closely related to the earthworm from the family enchytraeids. Whiteworms are an excellent food source for many amphibians and other aquatic creatures.
These worms can reach over 1 cm or more long. They are NOT a parasite danger to fish or other inhabitants of aquariums and are often seen wiggling up the sides or even at the surface. Whiteworms are basically a worm of de-composition and can multiply rapidly when over feeding is a problem. At this point the biggest danger is oxygen depletion from over population of these worms and a good vacuuming is in order. Many a customer has called or written me about these worms worrying that they have a parasite problem when in reality these worms are good for composting and are at worst an indicator of too much decomposing food and other organic debris. ...

As quoted earlier, '... well over 13,000 living species...' leaves a lot of wiggle room for worm ID's.


I'd often wondered about the discrepancy between the appearance of the white worm-like squirmies commonly identified as planaria and the description of flatworms, so this was of interest to me - and I was very glad to discover that these commonly introduced critters are unrelated to flatworms and unlikely to be toxic.
Whether you're interested ??? but I thought you might like to have the choice of reading this, and possibly finding a more exact ID of your particular specimens.

(edited some of the more appalling typing errors previously unnoticed)

 

[Awesomeguns]

Thank you very much for this post - very informative and I appreciate the time you took to construct it.

Is there any medication I can use to clear the tank of these critters before I populate it with my chosen fish?

 

[Awesomeguns]

Hi guys - sorry to be a pain but does anyone have any ideas about this?

 

[Davo86]

Hi, welcome to TFF
I wouldn't worry too much about the nematodes, your cichlids will see them as food,

Can i ask which particular species you are intending on keeping?

The suggested minimum tank size for lake malawi cichlids is a 4footer and you may find that aggression will be a lot higher in a smaller tank.

 

[Awesomeguns]

Thank you my friend - I am looking at 4 powder blue cichlids. They will be bought small and I plan to upgrade the tank within 6 months. Will the cichlids eat these critters up?

 

[Davo86]

Thank you my friend - I am looking at 4 powder blue cichlids. They will be bought small and I plan to upgrade the tank within 6 months. Will the cichlids eat these critters up?

yes, even though they are vegetarian fish they will more than happily eat any worms they come across or are fed.

with the Pseudotropheus socolofi try and get a ratio of 1M to 3F if you can, (although this might be impossible with smaller sized fish)
This will prevent any incredibly high levels of aggression between Males due the tank not having room for two or more territories.

 

[Awesomeguns]

Thank you my friend - I am looking at 4 powder blue cichlids. They will be bought small and I plan to upgrade the tank within 6 months. Will the cichlids eat these critters up?

yes, even though they are vegetarian fish they will more than happily eat any worms they come across or are fed.

with the Pseudotropheus socolofi try and get a ratio of 1M to 3F if you can, (although this might be impossible with smaller sized fish)
This will prevent any incredibly high levels of aggression between Males due the tank not having room for two or more territories.

Thanks Davo86 your a top man! (assuming you are a man!)

I have built up a good rockwork structure with over 8 hiding holes so any aggression will hopefully be nullified to some extent with lots of places to escape and hide but the sooner I can get a bigger tank the better!