My Plants Are Struggling

[StandbySetting]

I use flourish tabs I have to disagree with you guys. If you are using only sand as your plant media these tab are needed for some plants. But if you have a plant substrate then no your don't need them. It also depends on the plant.

I disagree, aquatic plants can utilise nutrients from the water column just as efficiently as they would if they were up taking it from their roots.

If you were to not do any water changes and did not keep any fish no matter what you did your plants would die once they used up all the co2. It's like o2 for fish and us.

The majority of the CO2 in your water column comes from the air in the atmosphere, it enters the water via gaseous exchange; The CO2 released by the fish is negligent.

 

[shadow1200]

two much nitrate ? the plants look brown like there burning from the nitrate

 

[ian]

Nitrate won't burn aquatic plants, they will burn terrestrial plants. I have read of Fe burning aquatic plants, but theres not much on it. Nitrate definitely won't burn aquatic plants though. Nitrates are great for plants, we love then on this side of the forum.

 

[simonas]

^^agreed...for a tank that size it might be an idea to dose the EI method...

http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/

Can be found here.

right got my stuff Ian

isdosing this way going to be detrimental to my discus? for example will it raise the nitrate level? I need to know as my main goal is to keep discus more than plants? I forgot to ask this before I spent £18 on the bits for the solutions

 

[ian]

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/155875-the-behemoth-tank/

this tank was/is EI dosed, the Discus flourished it the tank. Tom Barr has done quite a bit on Nitrate dosing, and tested Nitrate on high grade CRS and he reached a level of 200ppm. I will find the stuff on it and send it to you. It will raise the Nitrate in the tank, but the plants should use the nitrate.

 

[simonas]

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/155875-the-behemoth-tank/

this tank was/is EI dosed, the Discus flourished it the tank. Tom Barr has done quite a bit on Nitrate dosing, and tested Nitrate on high grade CRS and he reached a level of 200ppm. I will find the stuff on it and send it to you. It will raise the Nitrate in the tank, but the plants should use the nitrate.

I love that thread/tank

good stuff well I;ll give it a whirl anyway. Its easy to make the macro and the trace. Got white powder all over the digital scales!!! the police would wet themselves if they saw that!!

cheers pal

 

[lljdma06]

Yup, especially since it's all white & you're calling it "stuff"...



Got a little on your nose there, Si...

Serious, you won't regret the adoption of that fert method. It'll make things easier.

 

[JoshuaA]

Got a little on your nose there, Si...

It's funnier because of his job, I can't really picture Simonas walking into a police station going to help someone through an interview then sniffing violently and rubbing his nose saying... "I was up all night making macro nutrient doses for my aquatic plants."

 

[lljdma06]

Got a little on your nose there, Si...

"I was up all night making macro nutrient doses for my aquatic plants."

Sure... That's what they all say...

 

[aaronnorth]

All tanks have co2 you don't have to add it. What the fish breath out is co2 there is co2 in tap water. So yes your tank had co2. It all depends on how much light you have. If you run high light the plants use up co2 faster and more of it then a plant in a low light or mid light tank.

If you were to not do any water changes and did not keep any fish no matter what you did your plants would die once they used up all the co2. It's like o2 for fish and us.

Yes if you don't clean your gravel and after lots of poo and food get in it that helps grow the plants and acts as a dirt for roots. But with sand poo will not get down to the root.

As mentioned by someone else there is a constant equilibrium with the atmospheric CO2 and the water column CO2.
You are also forgetting the fact that plants are living and therefore respire too (or "breathe" if you like).
C6H12O6 + CO2 => O2 + H2O + CO2
Even from decaying plant matter, bacteria will also be respiring!!
There is no way around it, it is impossible to achieve 0ppm CO2.

I also have to ask was you dosing any nutrients in the water column?
If you was only using root tabs then there is no way you can be sure that 100% of these root tabs remained in the substrate, therefore you are posting invalid information.

Good light, co2, and plant substrate is what you need for plants.

Not really, you cant use the word 'good', what does that mean?
A balance between light, CO2 & nutrients is what is needed for healthy plants growth.
OR
Unlimiting light, CO2 & nutrients is what is needed for maximum rate of plant growth.

substrate has nothing to do with it... explain rhizome type plants

The reason people see an increase in the growth rate is due to the fact you are providing extra nutrients! Try root tabs with EI, I bet you don't see a difference then because the nutrients are already unlimiting

aquatic plants much prefer to uptake the nutrients via the leaf as they use less energy doing so.

Where have you read that?
There have been experiments showing it depends entirely on the plant, with some prefering uptake through the roots (aka the "heavy root feeders") and some prefer leaf uptake (stem plants mainly) - This of course does not mean they won't use both sources.
It has also been found that root uptake is much quicker than leaf uptake.

Plants have to spend a lot of energy to obtain nutrients due to the concentration gradient, if anything I would imagine the nutrient concentration to be higher in the leaf than the roots, meaning it will be harder to absorb nutrients? That would link in with the fact that root uptake is quicker...


Thanks, Aaron

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Root tabs! If you have heavy root feeding plants like swords it's but to have a good plant substrate or use rot tabs. They are amazing. But in my 10gal planted tank I have a thick layer of good plant substrate and I see a huge difference in these plants vs the ones in just sand.

Forgive the newbie question, but exactly what would you classify as a "good plant substrate"?


I am considering a bunch of different substrates for a tank I plan on purchasing soon (56 gallon). I plan to have it moderately planted with a heavy stock of fish (well, still within the 1 inch per gallon guidelines!). I am looking into some Flourite for the base of the substrate for the heavily planted areas, but I want an easy to keep clean top layer that my cories will enjoy and won't mess up their barbels.

 

[aaronnorth]

It isn't a newbie question, as I was saying above, good is a poor word to use!
You can top fluorite off with play sand, just rinse thoroughly as it is dirty, It is the easiest substrate to keep clean as well as detritus just sits on top until you siphon it out
Thanks, Aaron

 

[ian]

Where have you read that?
There have been experiments showing it depends entirely on the plant, with some prefering uptake through the roots (aka the "heavy root feeders") and some prefer leaf uptake (stem plants mainly) - This of course does not mean they won't use both sources.
It has also been found that root uptake is much quicker than leaf uptake.

AKA Heavy root feeders?? I thought this was disproved a few years ago, as above from the quote from Tom Barr, they will use either from experiments done. There really isn't such thing as a 'Heavy root feeder', we know the plants will take from either or, they will adapt to which ever. As i previously say, the water column extends into the substrate anyways. There are plenty of people growing crypts and swords perfectly in inert substrate, with 'good' (is this a poor usage of word?) water column dosing.

The 'plant will use less energy absorbing nutrients from leaves' is from also from the same experiments quoted by Tom Barr. Also you will read that 'some root feeders' grow the large roots just for anchorage during wet seasons.

and how is 'good' a poor word to use Aaron? In future should we be using the word 'mediocre or poor'?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

It isn't a newbie question, as I was saying above, good is a poor word to use!
You can top fluorite off with play sand, just rinse thoroughly as it is dirty, It is the easiest substrate to keep clean as well as detritus just sits on top until you siphon it out
Thanks, Aaron

Aaron,

Thanks for the reply. A question about sand and plants though (information overload from multiple sources and conflicting rumors)...


One source says that sand is great for plants, as detritus sits on the top and is easily vacuumed off without disturbing the roots.
Another source says that sand is bad, because it can lead to anaerobic conditions and lead to a Hydrogen Sulfide build-up, which could be released if disturbed - obviously detrimental to the fish.

One source says that gravel is better because you can get into the substrate to pull out extra detritus that builds up on the bottom. But, then a contradictory reason for gravel is that detritus can get into the substrate near plant roots, and some plants prefer that.

Needless to say, I'm not sure what to believe anymore. Hence my question of what a "good substrate" is. I want one that is good for both plants and FISH. I am starting a FISH tank, primarily, and the addition of live plants is aimed at two things: 1 - reduction of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate; 2 - a more natural setting so that the fish can exhibit more "natural" behaviors. I really don't want to have to fertilize or go with high light.

 

[RadaR]

One source says that sand is great for plants, as detritus sits on the top and is easily vacuumed off without disturbing the roots.
Another source says that sand is bad, because it can lead to anaerobic conditions and lead to a Hydrogen Sulfide build-up, which could be released if disturbed - obviously detrimental to the fish.

One source says that gravel is better because you can get into the substrate to pull out extra detritus that builds up on the bottom. But, then a contradictory reason for gravel is that detritus can get into the substrate near plant roots, and some plants prefer that.

Far too many people worry about these air pockets in sand, so it's not suprising that you've read this. Even if the gas pockets were released into the water column, they rapily excel to the top of the tank and transfer into the atmosphere. There's no time for it to dissolve into the water.

Both sand and gravel are fine to use. We want to keep detritus down to a minimum. This is one of the reasons for good flow rates and circulation patterns, to ensure floating waste gets sucked into the filter and isnt left to settle. Hence why gravel vacs arent performed in planted tanks. Maybe a hoover every now and then. Organic waste is not healthy and can leach ammonia which promotes algae blooms.

A gravel of 2-3mm is a popular choice but like I said, sand and gravel are not a problem.