My Fishless Cycling Readings (update)

[Rubyuk]

Quick update to keep you posted on my day 33 stats and developments with nitrite reading.

Because yesterdays reading for nitrite was next to zero I was surprised it was 0.3 this afternoon.

Thinking it might be because of adding extra ammonia yesterday or because i'd tested earlier today than at the weekend I decided to carry out some more nitrite tests today.

To keep you in the picture

At 2-30pm Nitrite was 0.3
At 5-30pm Nitrite was 0.1
At 7-30pm (which is just under 24 hrs from topping up the ammonia) Nitrite was Zero

I know ammonia is been processed to zero well within 24 hours if not a lot lot less. I can take more intermittant test results to show this if you feel it necessary as I dont know/remember how important it is,if at all that my readings clear to zero within 12 hours and not just 24?

At 7.30pm I added 7.11ml of ammonia to bring reading back to 4.9ppm as advised.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

the fact that it's consistently clearing within 24hrs is a good step in your progress, but you do need to wait for it to clear at the 12 hr mark.

 

[Rubyuk]

the fact that it's consistently clearing within 24hrs is a good step in your progress, but you do need to wait for it to clear at the 12 hr mark.

Hi Miss W

Why is the 12 hr so important?

I was hoping I was already cycled and in my qualifying week seeing both are Zero in 24 hrs

 

[Miss Wiggle]

thats just the measure we use to know that you have enough bacteria there. when it's clearing in 24 hours there's a good colony of bacteria there, but not good enough. It means if you put fish in now you'd not get any large amounts of ammonia or nitrite, but you would most likely get some which obviously defeats all your hard work cycling!

if you were dropping in say 14 hours instead of 12 then it's reasonably safe to go ahead and stock, but at 24 hrs it's just a bit too far away tbh.

in the word of the great immortal Take That - 'Have a little patience'

 

[Rubyuk]

thats just the measure we use to know that you have enough bacteria there. when it's clearing in 24 hours there's a good colony of bacteria there, but not good enough. It means if you put fish in now you'd not get any large amounts of ammonia or nitrite, but you would most likely get some which obviously defeats all your hard work cycling!

if you were dropping in say 14 hours instead of 12 then it's reasonably safe to go ahead and stock, but at 24 hrs it's just a bit too far away tbh.

in the word of the great immortal Take That - 'Have a little patience'

Looks like this weekend for stocking maybe off the cards then

I did a test this morning at the 12 hr mark from topping upto 4.9ppm of ammonia last night and although Ammonia was still Zero at 12 hr mark Nitrites were off the scale at the 12 hr mark (same reading i'd say as when I got my first spike)

I'm hoping/praying that at 24 hr mark at 7-30pm its back to zero as otherwise I fear topping up with higher amounts of ammonia last night has set things back?

Last night was first time i'd topped back up with ammonia to the 4.9 ppm mark as i've usually been going for about a 3ppm reading by adding 4.5/5ml of ammonia.Last night I added 7ml

 

[Miss Wiggle]

it's good to ease it up to 5ppm, it does take a day or two for the bacteria to catch up to that level but they'll start dropping in the same time again shortly.

You're nearly there but just not quite so stick with it.

 

[Rubyuk]

Hello all

Just to update you on my cycle,day 35

Day 33

Readings already posted

7-30pm added 7.11ml of ammonia to give a reading of 4.9ppm (this is first time I'd brought ammonia upto that high reading apart from at beginning of the cycle

Day 34

7-30am Ammonia 0
7-30am Nitrite Very high

2-30pm Nitrite same high level
7-30pm Nitrite 0.1 to 0.3

7-30pm added another 7.11ml of ammonia to bring reading upto 4.9ppm

Day 35 (today 18/2/09)

7-30am Ammonia 0.6
7-30am Nitrite high but reckon 1.6

9-30am Ammonia 0
9-30am Nitrite same 1.6

4.30pm Nitrite 0.8

7.30pm Ammonia 0
7-30pm Nitrite 0.1

7-30pm added another 7.11ml of ammonia to bring reading upto 4.9ppm

Sorry for so many readings throughout the day but I understand now that I have to aim for ammonia and nitrite to fall to zero within 12-14 hours at worse.

Previously and from alternative view from another source I thought I was cycled on day 33 when nitrite reading dropped to zero within 24 hours....you can imagine my disappointment when I was told I had to continue

So my ammonia was going to zero within 12 hours easily on the lower dose and is still going to zero within 14 hours on the increased dose.

My nitrite did zero in 24 hours on the lower ammonia dose (just the once as I then increased the ammonia) and is now nearly to zero after 24 hours on the higher ammonia dose.

Have I to keep going as I am adding ammonia back upto 4.9ppm each night and just wait for nitrite to zero within say 12-14 hours as well (dont know if we're talking days or weeks for that to happen) or do I need to cut back on anything or increase anything or wait to add ammonia only after my nitrite goes to zero to see how long it is taking to process?

Even though I'm frustrated at thinking I was cycled only to find the readings have got to drop to zero within 12 hours (14 at a push) I'm no expert as you know but I think my readings are going in the right direction to be classed hopefully very soon as fully cycled by the members of this board ?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah you're certainly getting there ruby, this last part is the most frustrating bit.

just keep plugging in the 5ppm of ammonia once every 24 hrs and test at the 12hour mark. Hopefully it won't be too long before you get that clear sky blue at the 12 hr mark.

 

[Rubyuk]

yeah you're certainly getting there ruby, this last part is the most frustrating bit.

just keep plugging in the 5ppm of ammonia once every 24 hrs and test at the 12hour mark. Hopefully it won't be too long before you get that clear sky blue at the 12 hr mark.

THanks Miss W

The moment it does clear within 12 hours am I then in my qualifying week?

I think i'm right that even in that week I still need to keep adding ammonia upto 4.9 ppm each day.

Bearing in mind when ever I stock it will be a Saturday or at a push Sunday what is the time the last dose of Ammonia goes in and how long before the stocking time do I need to do my large and first water change?

 

[waterdrop]

That's correct. Once a 5ppm add of ammonia is dropped by the filter bacteria to zero ammonia and zero nitrite(NO2) in 12 hours or less, its time to start your "qualifying week."

The intent of the week is just to give you some days to verify that the filter can keep performing these daily drops (yes, you have to add 5ppm ammonia each 24 hours) in a completely reliable manner (often people can get a single 12hour zero reading but it was just a blip, so we're just guarding against this.)

The "week" is not a strict week per se but is ideally meant to be the better part of the days of a week and to take you to the weekend when you will do your big water change and introduce your first new fish. If you "qualified" for the week right before a weekend then, yes, it would be better to not get fish that weekend but to "qualify" for the following week. Although the delay will seem frustrating at first, you will have to admit to yourself that raises your confidence to see the filter reliably performing those full drops day after day and then it will feel worth it I'd say.

Its ideal to either have the fish already home or know that they can come home relatively quickly on the day of the change. Its probably best to have the fish introduction follow the big water change during the same day, although the bacteria will be quite robust by now and there's no need to stress over them dying off very quickly. Even after the ammonia water is changed out, the filter will be flowing with fresh oxygenated water and the bacteria can go through the day and probably longer with virtually no change, even the next day would probably only bring a 2% population drop or so I'd guess.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Rubyuk]

That's correct. Once a 5ppm add of ammonia is dropped by the filter bacteria to zero ammonia and zero nitrite(NO2) in 12 hours or less, its time to start your "qualifying week."

The intent of the week is just to give you some days to verify that the filter can keep performing these daily drops (yes, you have to add 5ppm ammonia each 24 hours) in a completely reliable manner (often people can get a single 12hour zero reading but it was just a blip, so we're just guarding against this.)

The "week" is not a strict week per se but is ideally meant to be the better part of the days of a week and to take you to the weekend when you will do your big water change and introduce your first new fish. If you "qualified" for the week right before a weekend then, yes, it would be better to not get fish that weekend but to "qualify" for the following week. Although the delay will seem frustrating at first, you will have to admit to yourself that raises your confidence to see the filter reliably performing those full drops day after day and then it will feel worth it I'd say.

Its ideal to either have the fish already home or know that they can come home relatively quickly on the day of the change. Its probably best to have the fish introduction follow the big water change during the same day, although the bacteria will be quite robust by now and there's no need to stress over them dying off very quickly. Even after the ammonia water is changed out, the filter will be flowing with fresh oxygenated water and the bacteria can go through the day and probably longer with virtually no change, even the next day would probably only bring a 2% population drop or so I'd guess.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks Waterdrop.

So...to clarify...

Assuming hypothetically that my levels drop for both Ammonia and Nitrite within the next few days and my Q week can start next week to enable me to stock Next Saturday 28/2/09.

When would I add my last dose of ammonia (bearing in mind I've been adding at 7-30pm)

Because i'd be planning to buy stock early Saturday morning to give me longest period to rehome and monitor etc throughtout the weekend I'd be planning on doing the massive water change say Friday night/ Would that be ok?

If it is would I last top up with Ammonia on the Thursday night or would I top up with Ammonia to 5ppm on the Friday night AFTER doing my massive water change and then double check all clear Saturday morning before buying fish?

I'm not sure if after doing the big water change the idea is then to leave things or not before then adding the fish.

Also,as yet i've not done any water changes during my cycle. Is this ok? My water appears crystal clear,does not smell and theres no massive green algae problem.I do have some brown dandruff (assume brown algae) on some of my plants etc (have a number of live plants in tank)

The reason I ask is that since starting my cycle I've read the updated cycle article on here (not pinned yet) where it is stated that during the second part of the cycle TFF members now recommend doing a water change at this point of the cycle.

Is this an additional large water change instead of the final one or as well as.

Do you/other members recommend that I do a water change now or simply wait until the end? Whatever is best I will do

Cheers

 

[Rubyuk]

Latest readings Guys

Last night 7-30pm added another 7.11ml of ammonia to bring reading upto 4.9ppm

Day 36 readings (19/2/09)

7-30am Ammonia 0
Nitrite v.high hard to judge could be 1.6 or above

1-00pm Nitrite No change to above
Nitrate 110

7-30pm Nitrite 0
Nitrate 110

7-30pm another 7.11ml of ammonia added to bring upto 4.9ppm

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yes assuming you want to stock early morning on the saturday you should do your last charge with ammonia on Thursday night, then your large water change on friday evening and get your stock saturday morning.

 

[Rubyuk]

yes assuming you want to stock early morning on the saturday you should do your last charge with ammonia on Thursday night, then your large water change on friday evening and get your stock saturday morning.

Thanks Miss W

Lets hope I get to start my Qualifying week soon.

This morning my nitrite is still probably off the scale but it was like this the last few days as well with the higher dose of ammonia but does clear in 24 hours.

I know it could be 'how long is a piece of string' but will it simply clear over night one time within the 12 hours or will i notice a gradual decrease first like for example testing on a morning one day and finding nitrites at say 0.3 as opposed to off the scale?

Could this day be any day soon or could it still take weeks?

I'm surprised that my filter can clear this massive reading of nitrite in 24 hours but no sooner and asked the question of Waterdrop (he's not had chance to respond yet) regarding a possible water change for this reason given what I read in Back Tropicals article in your own thread about coming up with a new beginners pinned guide as I was wanting advice on whether members think my nitrites are way too high after dosing with 5ppm of ammonia each night and this is why its not clearing in 12 hours because there is too much of it for the filter to break down and that I might actually be cycled if it were not for this?

From my own novice interpretation of my results I can see that Ammonia is clearing to Zero within 12 hours even with the higher dose and that nitrite was clearing on the lower doze of ammonia and now is within 24 hours on the higher ammonia dose.

Do I still just wait for this magic day to arrive or do I need to do something to help it along like a water change now?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

it's only when nitrites are off the chart and stay off the chart that a water change is beneficial, if it's getting to 0 (or close) within the 24 hrs then it won't make any difference.

So yes, just keep plugging away, you'll see the clear sky blue soon enough. some people do report a bit of a population explosion in the NBacs and that it will drop quite quickly one day.