My Fishless Cycle Log || Everything That Has A Beginning Has An End&#3

[Ragtagcurtis]

Should be fine. Just carefully transfer it across.
Put the existing media closest to where the water enters the filter and any new media after that. Transfer the water from the filter into the new filter as well (every bit helps at this stage!)

How did you measure 8ppm nitrite?

Looking good!

Sorry I keep typing 8 yet I mean 5... school boy error lol

 

[Ragtagcurtis]

Still no drop in Nitrite. Worryingly maybe not even a change it is still off the chart. I guess it's just a waiting game.

 

[Ragtagcurtis]

Still no Nitrite movement. Getting alittle worried now... Any advice?

 

[tanksalot]

Still no Nitrite movement. Getting alittle worried now... Any advice?

I am currently fishless cycling my hospital tank, and even though I kick started the proceedings with some mature media, I still had 7 full days of nitrite being 5ppm (or more) before it finally dropped to 0.25 and then the next day to its first 0ppm.

I wouldn't be worrying about it just yet...

 

[Ragtagcurtis]

Still no Nitrite movement. Getting alittle worried now... Any advice?

I am currently fishless cycling my hospital tank, and even though I kick started the proceedings with some mature media, I still had 7 full days of nitrite being 5ppm (or more) before it finally dropped to 0.25 and then the next day to its first 0ppm.

I wouldn't be worrying about it just yet...

Thanks. I'm still holding on to some hope haha Give it 7 more days before taking action.

 

[BIG BAD BARRY]

Early days yet.
Are you checking ph?
I would check it daily with your other testing.

 

[Ragtagcurtis]

Early days yet.
Are you checking ph?
I would check it daily with your other testing.

Ok I'll start checking that also. What am I looking for with
The ph at this stage? I checked
Nitrate just out of interest and it was very high. So I guess that's a sign the nitrite is processing.

Silly question but you no anywhere I could get more test tude to do the testing? I can't think of anywhere
Off hand and I broke 2 tubes yesterday while cleaning.

 

[BIG BAD BARRY]

The below link explains nicely about ph and the other factors involved:

http/fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html


For cycling and bacteria development, a ph of 8.0+ is quoted. Ph below 7 is acidic.
Yours should be 7.6 which is fine. When the ph starts slipping towards 7 and below it can have a detrimental effect on the cycling process.
It is important to check your ph daily at this stage as when you are going through the cycling process, the build of of nitrate (nitric acid) reduces the buffering capacity (known as alkalinity and not the same as alkaline) which is the ability to deal with the nitrate without causing the ph to fall - very simply.
Durng cycling, when the buffering capacity has been reached you get the ph dropping, known as a ph crash which stalls the cycle.
We normally deal with this by doing 100% gravel vac water change or adding sodium bicarbonate to restore the buffering capacity or a combination of both.

The API Test kit has loads in it so dont worry about running out.
Use below link to tell them and they might let you have some if you ask nicely!


http/www.aquariumpharm.co.uk/help-desk/askus.aspx

 

[KittyKat]

I actually see that any pH change in either direction will stall the cycle very often.

Ragtagcurtis, I find that at this stage, a large water change can often help. Build up of nitrite and nitrate can cause a pH crash, so it is very to keep them low even when cycling. Also it is possible that some mineral or nutrient in the water has been used up be the bacteria, and it is always more useful to actually be able to see what is going on with the nitrite.

 

[Ragtagcurtis]

Just done my test and also included PH and High PH. Still no drop in nitrites but my PH is holding firm at around 7.5 with PH reading 7.6 and High PH reading 7.4

Would it be ok to buy ocean rock and put it in the tank now or should I wait until the cycle ends?

 

[BIG BAD BARRY]

<br />I actually see that any pH change in either direction will stall the cycle very often.<br /><br /><b>Ragtagcurtis</b>, I find that at this stage, a large water change can often help. Build up of nitrite and nitrate can cause a pH crash, so it is very to keep them low even when cycling. Also it is possible that some mineral or nutrient in the water has been used up be the bacteria, and it is always more useful to actually be able to see what is going on with the nitrite.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Kat
Is this another tweak to the method?
In your observations has it worked for both methods: i)where during the nitrite peak phase the ammonia dosing level was halved to 2-3ppm and ii)where the ammonia dosing has remained at 4-5ppm during the nitrite peak phase

as in the first instance, the build up of nitric acid is reduced.
I guess it would also be dependent on the KH as well.

Also, does it matter what is going on with the nitrite; as long as we know that it is in the peak phase and then when it is dropping and at 0ppm?

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, I agree with KK, there have been discussions in the past that it is really the *change* in pH (the delta if you will) that the autotrophs are responding to. Dave Spencer and I had some discussions about that because even in very acid tanks the bacteria will slowly come back to working even if they stopped working when the pH first dropped down to being very acid.

I also think our "graph" from Tim Hovanec of pH and growth rate have been good over the years that growth is stopped, stalled or very bad down at 6.0 and moving up to stalled at 6.2, then gradually getting better as we head up through the 7s until we finally reach the peak plateau of 8.0 to 8.4 where his lab work always found it best. Then the growth rate falls off a little as you go above 8.4.

My thinking has also gone along the same lines as KK in that I've always thought it would be interesting to do some fishless cycles where large water changes were done fairly frequently throughout the second and third phases when all the bad things (nitrite, nitrate, nitric acid) can and will build up. So you'd be removing those and replacing them with fresh tap water that has the things the bacteria want (ammonia in the right concentration, oxygen, calcium and other trace minerals from the fresh tap water.) It could be that KK will do one of these, she was going to try some "experiments" a while back.

Of course, two of the counter arguments are that first of all one of the supposed benefits of fishless cycling is that you *don't* have to change a lot of water like you do in Fish-In (especially if you stumble in to Fish-In unplanned and are overstocked for it) and of course the other one is the "disturbance" to the bacteria when a water change is performed which in some cases can cause the bacteria to "go on strike" for a couple of days in protest.

I truly don't know: it could be that a bunch of disciplined water changing with careful recharging of ammonia and bicarb to bring up back up to 8 would really shorten a fishless cycle significantly OR it could be that the darn things are just going to take their set amount of time to grow and that's it! All our hunches are made very hard by not knowing how many bacteria a fishless cycle started with from a particular tank of tap water. That alone is an exponential factor and a constant confounder for all our "hobbyist" experimenting!

~~waterdrop~~ (gee, are we having fun now )

 

[Ragtagcurtis]

So today the Nitrites looked a little lighter but I would still class them as 5ppm. If I don't get any drop by monday I will indeed proceed with a 90% water change.

Tomorrow I have decorators coming to decorate the whole apartment and that will go on for about a week. The aquarium and cabinet are in the living room and lets face it, to heavy to keep moving around so I'm going to have to shuffle it across the room when they need to put wooden flooring and wallpaper around it. Hopefully they understand that I don't just want to empty it and turn it off for a week...

Fingers crossed I can work around this..

 

[Gelt]

i was stalling with high nitrIte for around 5 days or so Kat recommended a water change , it seemed to have worked or at least re-invigorated the N-bacs last 5 days have shown daily significant N02 drops without stalling the Ammonia processing over 24 hrs.

Just a thought.

 

[KittyKat]

I actually see that any pH change in either direction will stall the cycle very often.

<b>Ragtagcurtis</b>, I find that at this stage, a large water change can often help. Build up of nitrite and nitrate can cause a pH crash, so it is very to keep them low even when cycling. Also it is possible that some mineral or nutrient in the water has been used up be the bacteria, and it is always more useful to actually be able to see what is going on with the nitrite.

Kat
Is this another tweak to the method?
In your observations has it worked for both methods: i)where during the nitrite peak phase the ammonia dosing level was halved to 2-3ppm and ii)where the ammonia dosing has remained at 4-5ppm during the nitrite peak phase

as in the first instance, the build up of nitric acid is reduced.
I guess it would also be dependent on the KH as well.

What watersrop said... I am thinking that if we could accurately test more things in the water, it would be easier to know if and when water changes are needed. As it is, we have to guess.

And yes, I have observed success with both methods, but the latter does appear to require a large water change considerable more often than the first.

Also, does it matter what is going on with the nitrite; as long as we know that it is in the peak phase and then when it is dropping and at 0ppm?

Yes, mainly because of potential for build up of nitric acid.. but I personally like to be able to get a more accurate reading just to know what is going on.