My First Post: Cardinals Vs. Neons

[waterdrop]

I sense that the phrase "if you research a good substrate" is the key opening here. Reading here and there around TFF I get the sense that the average aquarist now may have better basics to start with for plants than I did "back in the day." Are you suggesting I might want to learn about and get some sort of special plant substrate material that is not gravel and then put the more familiar gravel over top of it?

 

[rabbut]

That would be the ideal for a planted tank, especialy a low light one. This is because many plants are root feeders (get their fertiliers from the substrate as out in your garden) and thus do best in a nutrient rich specialist plant substrate. A plant substrate bace will open more options for plants at a later date, and it the only bit of planted tank gear that is difficult to add later.

HTH
Rabbut

 

[waterdrop]

Thanks rabbut, Somehow I imagine dirt but I guess these new substrates are some kind of rock-like things that provide the plant nutrients without causing other problems? Somebody should probably direct me to one of the pinned Planted Tanks where I can see what this stuff is and perhaps get further advice from the people who are really into plants... I'll just go looking but if you or anybody seeing this wants to point, please do. ~w~

 

[mark.w.jones]

Eco Complete and Laterite are two popular options to have below your small sized gravel if you plan on growing plants. You can also get heater cable to run through but George Farmer from the planted section + who also writes for PFK magazine says he's found them a waste of time so not to bother.

Your next consideration is the fertiliser to go for. As a beginner a bottled liquid fertiliser is the easiest option. I have always used Seachems flourish as it is quite well throught of amongst more experienced plant enthusiasts and contains a good mix of everything plants need.

You then move into the world of CO2. If you want lush, fast growing plants then you can't really get away without it. The easiest option is a bottled form. Again I use Seachems Flourish Excel on a daily basis to provide the necessary carbon. The next option is to go for a fermentation CO2 system. I have just bought the Dennerle Bioline kit seen here:

[URL="http/www.dennerle.de/EN/HG26UG03.htm"]http/www.dennerle.de/EN/HG26UG03.htm[/URL]

Finally there are bottled CO2 systems these are expensive for what you are planning so I would not recommend you go for one.

George Farmer is a good person to read up on in the PLanted Tank section and he has written some great advice here:

http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/...?article_id=625

Your final decision is what plants to go for. Easy to grow fast growing species are what you need. Look at the link in my sig. and you'll find wasy to grow plants. I would recommend Dwarf Ambulia, thai onions, java ferns, Crypts and Anubias species all as good beginner options.

 

[waterdrop]

jonesy, you are spot on (if I may borrow a uk phrase) for my reading needs -- many thanks! --waterdrop--

 

[waterdrop]

ok jonesy,

You have made me such a good outline. It both helps with planning my son's little tank, where you and RDD and others that have been helping me so much and are all exactly right that I don't need to get too far into overkill on the equip & details.. but also your outline helps direct my reading, and I just have to say that I find the planted tank topic absolutely fascinating! It is just so very interesting that this area has developed so much since the 60's .. I can't help myself but to continue to rush around and read about it - I'm just finding it fun to imagine that there is all this new knowledge out there about both the cycling and the planted environment.

I'm very curious just from an information standpoint about these expensive but ultimate co2 tanks. Are there some sort of delivery services where you actually receive heavy pressurized tanks of co2 and hook them up to some kind of gear going into the fish tank?? ..like those trucks that drive around with metal cylinders for welders and physics departments?

Or, perhaps there are plug-in appliances that generate co2? And the little clear co2 bubble ladders, what is that all about? I've even seen them in some of the pictures of the planted tanks - really fascinating!

~~waterdrop~~ (yes, a bit wide-eyed for an old guy but I don't care, they can go ahead and laugh, ha!)

 

[wolfwolf]

Waterdrop,

I have added low light plants to my tank and I have not lost a single one. As a matter of fact my crypts and anubias are growing faster than I thought they would. I have 3/8" gravel, no CO2, and less than 1 wpg. If I can grow plants then you should be fine. You are doing much better research than I did...

Don't let yourself get caught up in spending big $$$$ for equipment.

 

[mark.w.jones]

I know that you can get refilliable fire extinguisher canisters which are much cheaper to run than a normal pressurised canister system where you are tied in to buying canisters from the company who supplied the kit. This post goes into some detail:

http/www.fishforums.net/content/Plants-a...o2-And-Lights-/

Whether you would want a large pressurised canister in your house constantly leaking C02 into your tank with children around is another question. I would go for a yeast based system personally to be on the safe side. The Dennerle one is reliable for up to a month with minimal drop off of bubble production before the large solution bottle needs replacing. The bottles themselves can be bought in bulk at many places online for a cheaper price. However, they are a German company so not sure how easy to come by in the US.

The bubble ladders are not essential but are useful. Read here:

http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/20...Bubble-Counter/

 

[waterdrop]

Don't worry wolfwolf, I am -not- being practical here! I may lay a little groundwork for better plants if I find it easy but mostly I'm just having fun with the "shock & awe" (hows that for an unfortunate us phrase) of this planted tank tech that never existed when I was a kid. Its just fun to see the pictures of those beautiful entries to the AGA contests that Farmer mentions in his article and dream a little of doing a bit of that someday. Jonesy is satisfying my curiosity about the far reaches of how extreme these planted people really get!

So jonesy, I was really not so far off, eh? The equipment really does look like the stuff scuba divers and welders use! Wonders never cease. Farmers article series sure looks good if the first article is an indication. Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction -- I have lots of good reading now.

~~waterdrop~~