My Cycle Update

[SOLEXIS]

I come from Germany. I don't know why you add Ammonia in a tank when the fish provides the waste which will be transformed in ammonia!
In Germany, we stock fish the day after we full the tank with water. We add some bacteria (JBL Filter Start) and then during 1 week JBL Denitrol. Each you stock some new fish, use the bacteria.
I can see you have an external filter. Remove your carbon if you have some, buy some biological media Micromec and floss in bulk (Symec floss). I am a JBL fan as you can see!
That is not the first tank I have started like that.
Good luck

 

[waterdrop]

I come from Germany. I don't know why you add Ammonia in a tank when the fish provides the waste which will be transformed in ammonia!
In Germany, we stock fish the day after we full the tank with water. We add some bacteria (JBL Filter Start) and then during 1 week JBL Denitrol. Each you stock some new fish, use the bacteria.
I can see you have an external filter. Remove your carbon if you have some, buy some biological media Micromec and floss in bulk (Symec floss). I am a JBL fan as you can see!
That is not the first tank I have started like that.
Good luck

Hi Solexis and welcome to TFF!

Yes, cycling with fish, or "fish-in" cycling as we call it, was commonly done in the 1950's through the 1970's. Experienced fishkeepers often traded info on which fish were the hardiest and would likely survive the cycling process. Eventually ichthyologists further detailed the process of ammonia poisoning in fish. They were able to determine that even small amounts of ammonia cause permanent damage to the gills. This explained the phenomenon known as "new tank syndrome" wherein less hardy fish would frequently die in newly set up tanks.

Starting in the 1980's a technique called "fishless cycling" was gradually developed and has become the method of choice among knowledgable hobbyists for preparing a biofilter. Since the two species of bacteria to be grown in the filter media need ammonia as their food, as well as oxygenated water in the proper pH range, it was determined that, by monitoring the levels properly, household ammonia could be added to the tank and the bacteria developed without needing the inhumane treatment and without damaging the gills of your fish.

The technique of fishless cycling is still evolving a bit but for the most part is a pretty well-known technique now. It is quite fascinating, especially to older fishkeepers having enough past experience to remember fish dying or being damaged by the old methods. When performed correctly, it allows a fairly full stocking to occur directly after the filter is determined to be fully cycled. It also helps beginners to better understand the importance of the nitrogen cycle and the nature of their new filters and the most important tests for maintaining a healthy fish environment before they actually have fish.

Fishless cycling is one of the core skills talked about constantly on the "New to the Hobby" section of TFF. There are pinned articles under the Beginners Resource Center, Cycling Resource Center links and our main working article for fishless cycling is the one written by rdd1952 in the pinned section.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[SOLEXIS]

I come from Germany. I don't know why you add Ammonia in a tank when the fish provides the waste which will be transformed in ammonia!
In Germany, we stock fish the day after we full the tank with water. We add some bacteria (JBL Filter Start) and then during 1 week JBL Denitrol. Each you stock some new fish, use the bacteria.
I can see you have an external filter. Remove your carbon if you have some, buy some biological media Micromec and floss in bulk (Symec floss). I am a JBL fan as you can see!
That is not the first tank I have started like that.
Good luck

Hi Solexis and welcome to TFF!

Yes, cycling with fish, or "fish-in" cycling as we call it, was commonly done in the 1950's through the 1970's. Experienced fishkeepers often traded info on which fish were the hardiest and would likely survive the cycling process. Eventually ichthyologists further detailed the process of ammonia poisoning in fish. They were able to determine that even small amounts of ammonia cause permanent damage to the gills. This explained the phenomenon known as "new tank syndrome" wherein less hardy fish would frequently die in newly set up tanks.

Starting in the 1980's a technique called "fishless cycling" was gradually developed and has become the method of choice among knowledgable hobbyists for preparing a biofilter. Since the two species of bacteria to be grown in the filter media need ammonia as their food, as well as oxygenated water in the proper pH range, it was determined that, by monitoring the levels properly, household ammonia could be added to the tank and the bacteria developed without needing the inhumane treatment and without damaging the gills of your fish.

The technique of fishless cycling is still evolving a bit but for the most part is a pretty well-known technique now. It is quite fascinating, especially to older fishkeepers having enough past experience to remember fish dying or being damaged by the old methods. When performed correctly, it allows a fairly full stocking to occur directly after the filter is determined to be fully cycled. It also helps beginners to better understand the importance of the nitrogen cycle and the nature of their new filters and the most important tests for maintaining a healthy fish environment before they actually have fish.

Fishless cycling is one of the core skills talked about constantly on the "New to the Hobby" section of TFF. There are pinned articles under the Beginners Resource Center, Cycling Resource Center links and our main working article for fishless cycling is the one written by rdd1952 in the pinned section.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for the answer. But I am German and my wife is French. We have lived in the 2 countries for many years. We had heard about this method but as an old one. I agree it should work but it takes time when you could stock your tank immediately using some bacteria.
West Europe is using this method for a while now. I don't criticise and anything else, I just try to explain than England and USA, cause both speak english, have the same approach. I would be happy if could try the bacteria method. I am going to try to find some ammonia at B&Q (I didn't know at all you could buy some ammonia!!!) and set up a small tank to try this way.
Thanks for the discussion!
Bye

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, sometimes there's a bit of trouble finding just the "right" ammonia. It must not have dyes or perfumes or soaps in it. When you shake the bottle it should be like water, creating some bubbles that go away quickly, not creating any foam. This will typically actually be a dilute ammonia solution of about 5 or 10%, but often it will not say so. If the percentage is clearly stated, you can calculate and get a more accurate measured start, but in any case it is very important to start a little low and then test to see that you are actually getting 4-5ppm ammonia in the tank. Have you read our article by rdd1952, pinned at the top of the forum? It's a compilation of many older articles from other sources and is very good. In previous years people debated about different types of ammonia, but that has all settled down and it is pretty well accepted that the typical ammonia hydroxide solution of household clear ammonia works just fine.

The method has been shown to often take 21 days on average if nothing goes wrong. The method is typically recommended for situations where the fishkeeper has no previous mature filter media of course, usually someone new to the hobby and out by themselves. Getting a good batch of mature media from someone else can sometimes produce a cycled filter immediately or much more quickly. In practice, the method with no mature media takes anywhere from 14 days to several months. The filter should have sponge and/or ceramic media to anchor the bacteria, no carbon is needed. Water changes along the way are fine as long as the returned water is conditioned and the ammonia is recharged to the right level.

I like to think that members here would have an open mind about any new bacteria-innoculation product but there is clearly a long history of these failing pretty much completely when observed under careful circumstances. This has led to a situation where it is rare to find anyone who wants to spend the money and time to try out yet another one. One interesting question is whether the two species of bacteria we need, the chemolithoautotrophs, are the types of species that have any sort of spore capability - I believe they don't, but that's without looking it back up. I also think the issues about keeping these bacteria alive in a bottle have been discussed in some of our other threads.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[martyn413]

I am quite happy to wait the 6 - 7 weeks or more that is required to have my tank cycled. I do not want to cause any harm to the fish I put in there.

Martyn