More Problems

[justinp]

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far, trying to help me with the problems Ive had with my tank...Unfortunatly I still am confused about whats going on with the tank and need help! I will go through everything one more time from the beginning...I hope someone may have an idea.

Five days ago I noticed my Monos and Archer gasping. They were still active and acting normal besides the gasping. I tested the water and found everything ok except the PH had dropped from 8 to 7...The next day I did a 20% water change and used a marine buffer to raise the PH. I also increased the oxygen in the water with an air stone and within hours the gasping had stopped but the water began to get cloudy...milky looking. I tested the water again that night and found the ammonia had spiked. It was around 2.4 or so...quite high! So I did another water change and added Nitrivec (to break down ammonia and nitrite). The next morning I woke up to find the tank so cloudy that I couldnt see the roots, rocks or plants at the back! I tested again and found the ammonia even higher, so I did a 40% water change and added more nitrivec. The cloudiness came back by the night. I tested again and found the ammonia still around 1.2 or so, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5, Ph 7.5...All this time the fish did not seem to be affected by the ammonia, as far as I could tell. I ended up waking up in the middle of the night that night to check the ammonia again and found it was at 2.4 again, so I used ammo lock. The fish at this point were not gasping but kind of lethargic. Then this morning I tested and found the ammonia down around .02...The fish seemed fine but the water is still extremely cloudy...

Sorry for the length of this post! I just want to see if anyone has any ideas???

I fear the tank may be cycling again, dont know how or why the bacteria would have died off, and I dont have a big enough hospital tank for all these large fish...

Does anyone have any idea of where to go from here? I am worried about my fish going through a cycle if this is what is happening...

Also what would cause this much cloudiness?

Thanks for your time

 

[AMS]

The cloudy water could be a number of things, probably a bacterial bloom. The only thing I can reccomend is stop using the Ammo-Lock. If your tank is going through a cycle (which seems to be the case) and you are using Ammo-Lock the bacteria can not establish a colony in your filter as it feed on the ammonia. You want to establish a bacteria colony because if not you will be using Ammo-Lock for the rest of your life. Are you still feeding the fish? Can you think of anything causing this excess ammonia such as a decaying fish you have not found? I reccomend not doing so, only when needed to keep the fish from starving to death. Keep up the water changes, test your water religiously, and hope for the best.

If possible, any type of hospital would be safest for the fish and easier for you. A ten gallon tank, a rubber maid container, anything fish safe to use will do. Add a heater, filter with ammo block chips and let the main tank cycle.

 

[justinp]

The cloudy water could be a number of things, probably a bacterial bloom. The only thing I can reccomend is stop using the Ammo-Lock. If your tank is going through a cycle (which seems to be the case) and you are using Ammo-Lock the bacteria can not establish a colony in your filter as it feed on the ammonia. You want to establish a bacteria colony because if not you will be using Ammo-Lock for the rest of your life. Are you still feeding the fish? Can you think of anything causing this excess ammonia such as a decaying fish you have not found? I reccomend not doing so, only when needed to keep the fish from starving to death. Keep up the water changes, test your water religiously, and hope for the best.

If possible, any type of hospital would be safest for the fish and easier for you. A ten gallon tank, a rubber maid container, anything fish safe to use will do. Add a heater, filter with ammo block chips and let the main tank cycle.

If I dont have a hospital tank available right now (It is being used to quarantine a sick fish) what would you recommend I do? I have only ever cycled a Brackish tank with mollies and I am worried about having my monos and archer in the tank during cycling...Any advice?

 

[nmonks]

It doesn't sound like you have many options here. If it was my tank, all I'd do was sit on my hands and hope for the best. As AMS says, removing the ammonia remover is essential. I'd also increase the oxygen as much as possible.

Another thing I'd investigate is getting some filter medium from somewhere else. If your SG is 1.010, even some filter medium from someone with a marine tank might work. If it's below 1.010, then from a freshwater tank. Either way, adapt the filter media the same way you would some fish, placing in a bucket and adding new water a bit at a time over a few hours.

Cycling a tank with fish in it isn't the end of the world. Monos have been used to cycle marine tanks in the past, and while they don't like ammonia, they should tolerate it. The archer is a little more tricky, and I can't predict how it'll handle things. I suspect it'll be fine, but one option is to move it out to a freshwater tank for the duration. Archers are fine in freshwater for long periods.

Beyond that, cut back on the food, and do water changes only when the nitrites reach a critical level (say, 20 mg/l) -- after all, the nitrite is needed to "feed" the filter bacteria, just like the ammonium.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[justinp]

It doesn't sound like you have many options here. If it was my tank, all I'd do was sit on my hands and hope for the best. As AMS says, removing the ammonia remover is essential. I'd also increase the oxygen as much as possible.

Another thing I'd investigate is getting some filter medium from somewhere else. If your SG is 1.010, even some filter medium from someone with a marine tank might work. If it's below 1.010, then from a freshwater tank. Either way, adapt the filter media the same way you would some fish, placing in a bucket and adding new water a bit at a time over a few hours.

Cycling a tank with fish in it isn't the end of the world. Monos have been used to cycle marine tanks in the past, and while they don't like ammonia, they should tolerate it. The archer is a little more tricky, and I can't predict how it'll handle things. I suspect it'll be fine, but one option is to move it out to a freshwater tank for the duration. Archers are fine in freshwater for long periods.

Beyond that, cut back on the food, and do water changes only when the nitrites reach a critical level (say, 20 mg/l) -- after all, the nitrite is needed to "feed" the filter bacteria, just like the ammonium.

Cheers,

Neale

Thanks for the help...I hope they make it.

I do have a single Green Spotted Puffer in a 20 gallon tank which I could try to introduce the archer to but Im worried the puffer will get very unhappy. The puffer is only about 3 inches but has never been with other fish since he was tiny in the fish shop. What do you think?

 

[AMS]

Depends on the size of the archer. IMHO a few nipped fins is well worth the price of avoiding a cycle. Archers seem to be sensitive to nitrates, so nitrites and ammonia may be torture.

 

[justinp]

Depends on the size of the archer. IMHO a few nipped fins is well worth the price of avoiding a cycle. Archers seem to be sensitive to nitrates, so nitrites and ammonia may be torture.

The archer is about 6 inches...quite large, he is a few years old now. I will probably move him. Its just going to be small for them...

 

[justinp]

Thanks to everyone who helped me with my tank problems. The advice was great...

I have made a decision to move my puffer and his filters ect. into a smaller 10g tank and use the 20g for the Monos and Archer. They seem to be doing ok now...They were extremely stressed about moving. So I guess now Im just waiting on the main tank to recycle...

If anyone else has anymore advice on anything I can do to speed up the cycle or make things go smoother for the monos and archer please let me know...The tank they are in now is NOT cycled, I guess I will just be doing quite a few water changes over the next few weeks.

Thanks Again

 

[AMS]

I have made a decision to move my puffer and his filters ect. into a smaller 10g tank and use the 20g for the Monos and Archer. They seem to be doing ok now...They were extremely stressed about moving. So I guess now Im just waiting on the main tank to recycle...

If anyone else has anymore advice on anything I can do to speed up the cycle or make things go smoother for the monos and archer please let me know...The tank they are in now is NOT cycled, I guess I will just be doing quite a few water changes over the next few weeks.

Thanks Again

Are you using any type of ammonia/nitrite removing filter media or such? IMHO you need it for your hospital tank. If the monos and archer were moved from a tank in the process of cycling to a another uncycled tank you are doing nothing except stressing the fish from the move, unless of course you have some type of ammonia and nitrite remover.

To speed up the cycle provide plenty of oxygen, raise the temperature to about 85 degrees, and if possibly get a piece of bio media from an established brackish tank.

To make things as less stressful for the monos and archers turn off the lights. Fish actually prefer no lights at all so turning them off all together wont do any harm and will relieve some stress. Keep up with the WC's in the hospital and so forth.

 

[justinp]

Well things do seem to be getting better with my tank situation. It is re-cycling...Cloudiness is now gone.

I am just still wondering how this may have happened!!! The tank is 60g., 1 and half years old and never had any problems before. I have thought of a few possibilites and was wondering if anyone could comment on these...Some of them are just things I would like to know for the future as I never want to go through all this again...

1. Can a drop in ph (like from 8-7) kill off bacteria?
2. I have always only changed one part of my filter media at a time to avoid killing off bacteria, but I am not too sure if I am doing this properly...Any advice on changing filter media and when, how ect...
3. How often do you change bio max and clean the sponges?
4. Can changes in Salinity kill off bacteria quickly? I try to vary the salinity every once in a while, how much would you vary it by? I am currently at 1.014...
5. What salinity would you keep Archers and Monos at together, since as adults they should be kept in different SG's?


I guess any other advice would be great as I now dont feel I know as much about Brackish as I should (Although I have kept freshwater fish for 6 years and Brackish fish for 3 years now with no major problems until now...)

Thanks for the help!

 

[AMS]

1. Can a drop in ph (like from 8-7) kill off bacteria?
2. I have always only changed one part of my filter media at a time to avoid killing off bacteria, but I am not too sure if I am doing this properly...Any advice on changing filter media and when, how ect...
3. How often do you change bio max and clean the sponges?
4. Can changes in Salinity kill off bacteria quickly? I try to vary the salinity every once in a while, how much would you vary it by? I am currently at 1.014...
5. What salinity would you keep Archers and Monos at together, since as adults they should be kept in different SG's?

1. As far I my understanding pH is irrelevent towards bacterial colonization.
2. You should never change biological media, only when flow becomes drastically reduced. Also wash in tank water as tap water will kill the bacteria.
3. Biological as #2 above, mechanical when ever needed usually once every 1 to 2 weeks.
4. Probably only large swings, normal fluctuations of SG during every water change should not kill bacteria.
5. Depends on the species of Archer.

 

[justinp]

1. Can a drop in ph (like from 8-7) kill off bacteria?
2. I have always only changed one part of my filter media at a time to avoid killing off bacteria, but I am not too sure if I am doing this properly...Any advice on changing filter media and when, how ect...
3. How often do you change bio max and clean the sponges?
4. Can changes in Salinity kill off bacteria quickly? I try to vary the salinity every once in a while, how much would you vary it by? I am currently at 1.014...
5. What salinity would you keep Archers and Monos at together, since as adults they should be kept in different SG's?

1. As far I my understanding pH is irrelevent towards bacterial colonization.
2. You should never change biological media, only when flow becomes drastically reduced. Also wash in tank water as tap water will kill the bacteria.
3. Biological as #2 above, mechanical when ever needed usually once every 1 to 2 weeks.
4. Probably only large swings, normal fluctuations of SG during every water change should not kill bacteria.
5. Depends on the species of Archer.

The species is Toxotes Jaculatrix...

 

[AMS]

While it is reccomended that Monos are moved into full strength marine water when mature, a medium of 1.015 would be good for the Monos and Toxotes jaculatrix. 1.015 is close enough to full marine conditions, the Monos should be fine as well as the Archer. A little higher will be too much for the Archer, so make sure the SG doesnt go much higher than 1.015 range.

 

[justinp]

OK...Once again Im confused...

I have just finished medicating my monos and archers with an antibiotic for their fins (fin rot) and one for its mouth (cotton mouth?) which are both now all gone. They seemed fine during treatment but now that it has stopped and I have done a few big water changes, they are all gasping and "shimmying" quite badly...I have checked the water many times and get...PH 8, SG. 1.016, Amm. 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5, temp. 78...

They have a lot of oxygen in this hospital tank also...

So Im out of ideas...

Anyone have any?

Im once again worried about these fish, they have been through so much in the last month!

 

[justinp]

They seem to be getting worse and worse! Does anyone have any ideas I have done another water change, tested water...Cant find anything wrong!!! They seem to have the signs of ammonia poisoning or something but there is no ammonia in the tank and hasnt been since they were put in this hospital tank! I have no where else to put them...The main tank is still re-cycling! I am so worried about them now and dont know what to do!!! I have had these guys for three years now and have never had problems! Please help!!!!