Migthegreek - Fishless Cycle Log

[waterdrop]

Agree.

 

[Deleted member 55926]

Chances are good that you can already process the ammonia to zero in 12 hours and are just waiting for the nitrite processors to catch up.

The tank has been able to process 5ppm ammonia to zero in about 10 hours, for a while now. In fact I only test every couple of days lately because it's just the nitrites that I'm waiting for.

 

[Deleted member 55926]

Oh my god, someone tell me why my ammonia is RISING again. I'm getting really fed up.

 

[waterdrop]

Did you pH crash? Did your nitrate(NO3) skyrocket because you've been going so long? If either of these you might need a good gravel-clean-90%water-change with ammonia recharge.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Deleted member 55926]

I'll check pH and nitrate tonight. Does that mean I have to start the cycle all over again?

Does it have anything to do with the tons of white mould growing on the driftwood?

 

[fatheadminnow]

I'll check pH and nitrate tonight. Does that mean I have to start the cycle all over again?

Does it have anything to do with the tons of white mould growing on the driftwood?

No, it does not mean that you have to start all over. If you had a pH crash, say your pH fell below 6.5, then the beneficial bacteria would just simply start to slow down, or halt in production all together. Until the pH is raised back up, they will not process ammonia or nitrite at their speeds they were previous to the pH crash.

Just let us know what your pH is at.

-FHM

 

[Deleted member 55926]

Ok, thanks. Will let you know.

But what causes pH crashes? Wouldn't it help to identify the cause? Is the driftwood/white fluff in the tank doing anything, just so I know in case I should remove it until I'm cycled?

 

[fatheadminnow]

Ok, thanks. Will let you know.

But what causes pH crashes? Wouldn't it help to identify the cause? Is the driftwood/white fluff in the tank doing anything, just so I know in case I should remove it until I'm cycled?

This is probably some sort of fungus, I had something similar on my wood in my tank, but it will clear up in a couple weeks. If you do not like the sight of it, then you can take it out and wash it off but it will most likely come back a little until it runs it life course dies off.

pH is VERY prone to fluctuations during any cycling tank. As ammonia levels constantly change from a day to day basis, along with a rising nitrate level, which will also affect pH, your pH is going to be effects by this. Ammonia and nitrate, I forget which, but I think one is more alkaline and the other is more acidic, which means that these to toxins are going to pull the pH around. The pH also changes accordingly with the hardness of your water. If you have softer water, then your pH is going to be more prone to fluctuation.

However, even if your pH did dropped, or rise above 9.0, I would not worry about it too much right now. If however, your pH is still bouncing all over the place after your cycle has completed, a couple weeks after, then that would be when you would want to look into it more.

For now, if the pH is way off, just do what waterdrop said, a large 90% ish water change, which would bring the pH back to where it was, and your cycle would be under way.

-FHM

 

[fatheadminnow]

Oh my god, someone tell me why my ammonia is RISING again. I'm getting really fed up.

According to your graph (yellow line), it seems that you started dosing a high amount of ammonia near the end of the graph. If you are dosing a higher amount, then it is going to take longer for the ammonia to drop to zero. But since you have been dosing a smaller amount of ammonia all along, then you do not have enough bacteria to handle the 5 ppm of ammonia you are adding now, which would explain the recent rise in ammonia.

I bet your pH is just fine, but still check it.

-FHM

 

[waterdrop]

The 5ppm ammonia that we keep adding over and over to a fishless cycling tank keeps getting processed by the nitrogen cycle until it ends up as nitrate(NO3). We are artificially simulating an even larger fish population than you would ever have in there (we're doing that on purpose so that the bacterial colonies will be robust enough to handle a full stocking at about 2 months.) So, of course, we have much, much more nitrite(NO3) (toward the end of the fishless cycle) than we would ever have under normal circumstances.

Nitrate(NO3), when it is in water does not just sit around in perfect little NO3- ions (nitrate ions) but instead is reacting and changing all the time based on the surrounding H2O water molecules and all the other ions and molecules in the water. After all, there are all those hydrogen atoms around that can form a nice strong + (plus) charge if some surrounding charges or reactions can expose them as a naked proton! So you're going to always have some acid-base reactions going on down at the molecular level in water solutions like these. And what happens is that, on average, about 93% of the stuff we're thinking of as nitrate (the NO3- ion that is) is going to be in the conjugate base state, which would be the nitrate ion just as we've described it, whereas a little bit of it, about 7% on average, will grab a hydrogen proton and be in the HNO3 state, the conjugate acid state if you will, which of course is nitric acid. Nitric acid is about the 4th or so strongest acid you'd typically find out there (behind hydrochloric acid or sulfuric acid for example) so its quite capable of lowering the pH of the solution even in pretty tiny amounts!

Anyway, that's the chemical story of why the fishless cycling process will always be at least trying to lower your pH. I say "trying" because its all very dependent on the quantities of various minerals that happen to be dissolved in your water, particularly the ones that make up what we call "temporary hardness" or "carbonate hardness" and that you see us mentioning "KH" measurements for. If the KH measurement is high then there will be lots of the right types of mineral ions to negate the effect of our HNO3 nitric acid and we won't see the pH go down. If there are not enough of those KH minerals then the acid will cause the pH to drop. Isn't water chemistry wonderful?

~~ just a drop of waterdrop ~~

 

[Deleted member 55926]

I don't think it's fine.

pH = 6.0
Ammonia = 3.5
Nitrite = 0.5

 

[OldMan47]

You need to get the pH back up Mig. With a pH of 6.0, your cycle is stalled. Try adding in some sodium bicarbonate to add a bit of buffer and raise the pH.

 

[Deleted member 55926]

How much should I add (bearing in mind I have a 110 Litre tank)

 

[OldMan47]

Start with a teaspoon and check to see how you are doing.

 

[Deleted member 55926]

I had to go away for the weekend before your reply OldMan, but I took a guess and added a heaped tsp. Seems to have done the trick, and my pH is now back up to 7.2. I added another half tsp this morning to try to get it closer to pH 8 for the bacteria to be closer to their comfort zone, and will continue dosing as before.