Mexican Dwarf Orange Crayfish

[fishboy619]

i descovered these crayfish while searching on a site (http/www.petshrimp.com/articles/cpatzcuarensis.html ) and they looked very intresting, so tried to do more research, but google has limited knowledge, so can anyone shed any light on these creatures, what are they like, tank size, foods, things that help to keep them alive and well, things that dont etc. anything really.
also does anyone know where to get any of them.
cheers for any help.

 

[raptorrex]

i descovered these crayfish while searching on a site (http/www.petshrimp.com/articles/cpatzcuarensis.html ) and they looked very intresting, so tried to do more research, but google has limited knowledge, so can anyone shed any light on these creatures, what are they like, tank size, foods, things that help to keep them alive and well, things that dont etc. anything really.
also does anyone know where to get any of them.
cheers for any help.

academic im afraid. the only legal Crayfish in the UK is, the Australian Redclaw [size=-1]Cherax quadricarinatus. all others are no no's! i would also suggest you report the vendor of these Cray! laws are there for a reason. as with any other criminals, they need reported! that is if they are suggesting they could supply to the UK. oddly though, it is legal to import many Crayfish into the uk via Europe, just illegal to keep them! [/size]

 

[severum boy]

Yup, as cool as other crays are, only one sp. can be kept here. I would extremely discorage anyone from illegally importing any cray. Not only is it illegal, but the potential damage to the ecosystem is enormous.
Dont do it. Move to Germany instead.

 

[fishboy619]

the site isnt english, and i know of no one who sells them, thats why i asked. what about the other crayfish u spoke about? hows that in relation to dwarf crays? community creature?

 

[raptorrex]

the site isnt english, and i know of no one who sells them, thats why i asked. what about the other crayfish u spoke about? hows that in relation to dwarf crays? community creature?

i would say the redclaw is, by nature among the most chilled of cray. having said that i know one who would break the glass of its tank to get at fish. i do keep a redclaw in a community, and with some succsess. however i belieave the introduction phase, coupled with the correct tank and maturaty of the fish, is far more important than the Cray itself.

if you get these things right, you like me, may well be able to look at you tank and say "you dont see that often". my fish sleep in peace, wherever they choose. and the cray shows all signs of being happy too. take a look at my thread on Crayfish in the community.

 

[GoldLenny]

i descovered these crayfish while searching on a site (http/www.petshrimp.com/articles/cpatzcuarensis.html ) and they looked very intresting, so tried to do more research, but google has limited knowledge, so can anyone shed any light on these creatures, what are they like, tank size, foods, things that help to keep them alive and well, things that dont etc. anything really.
also does anyone know where to get any of them.
cheers for any help.

academic im afraid. the only legal Crayfish in the UK is, the Australian Redclaw [size=-1]Cherax quadricarinatus. all others are no no's! i would also suggest you report the vendor of these Cray! laws are there for a reason. as with any other criminals, they need reported! that is if they are suggesting they could supply to the UK. oddly though, it is legal to import many Crayfish into the uk via Europe, just illegal to keep them! [/size]

Boboboy,

No need to call Scotland Yard on Petshrimp.com. They aren't even in the UK.

Geeeze.. I'm glad I don't live in your neighborhood. You'd be calling the cops on me every time I come speeding down your street. You should worry more about the terrorists trying to blow you up rather than someone keeping a pet crawfish. I doubt that it's criminal anyhow. Maybe some kind of civil fine but who even has the time to worry about such nonsense... other than some politician who didn't get paid off by the pet crawfish importers. I sure hope you guys haven't gotten to the point of throwing someone in jail for keeping a pet crawfish.

Just because there is a law on the books doesn't make it right. If that was the case, slavery would still exist today. Sometimes lawmakers do pretty stupid things while more serious things are going on.

 

[severum boy]

I doubt that it's criminal anyhow. Maybe some kind of civil fine but who even has the time to worry about such nonsense... other than some politician who didn't get paid off by the pet crawfish importers. I sure hope you guys haven't gotten to the point of throwing someone in jail for keeping a pet crawfish.

You do know that if the authorities find out they will destroy the cray don't you?
Same goes for any other illegally kept aquatic creature.

 

[raptorrex]

i descovered these crayfish while searching on a site (http/www.petshrimp.com/articles/cpatzcuarensis.html ) and they looked very intresting, so tried to do more research, but google has limited knowledge, so can anyone shed any light on these creatures, what are they like, tank size, foods, things that help to keep them alive and well, things that dont etc. anything really.
also does anyone know where to get any of them.
cheers for any help.

academic im afraid. the only legal Crayfish in the UK is, the Australian Redclaw [size=-1]Cherax quadricarinatus. all others are no no's! i would also suggest you report the vendor of these Cray! laws are there for a reason. as with any other criminals, they need reported! that is if they are suggesting they could supply to the UK. oddly though, it is legal to import many Crayfish into the uk via Europe, just illegal to keep them! [/size]

Boboboy,

No need to call Scotland Yard on Petshrimp.com. They aren't even in the UK.

Geeeze.. I'm glad I don't live in your neighborhood. You'd be calling the cops on me every time I come speeding down your street. You should worry more about the terrorists trying to blow you up rather than someone keeping a pet crawfish. I doubt that it's criminal anyhow. Maybe some kind of civil fine but who even has the time to worry about such nonsense... other than some politician who didn't get paid off by the pet crawfish importers. I sure hope you guys haven't gotten to the point of throwing someone in jail for keeping a pet crawfish.

Just because there is a law on the books doesn't make it right. If that was the case, slavery would still exist today. Sometimes lawmakers do pretty stupid things while more serious things are going on.

you don't get to pick and Choose the laws you follow, unless of course you are the US government. looks like it is rubbing of on its people!

if people keep breaking the law on this, the result may well be a total ban on imported Cray in the UK. i'm sure you couldn't care less about that. I however do! The only native Cray in the UK has been all but eradicated, by the introduction if the plague ridden Signal. i forget for a moment where that came from, lol. it was people with the same attitude as you, seem to have. that allowed its escape, and are therefore responsible for the plight of cray keepers in the UK today. you may have little regard for the laws of other country's, as indeed does your government, but i have.
i'm sure nobody has been imprisoned for keeping Cray. but they will have had a legal court hearing to consider their case. and not just been locked up in an annexed section of someone else's country, because the laws of the world do not apply to the government of my country! humm but i'm sure that's happening somewhere.

you are of course entitled to you opinion on British law, as anyone is. laws good or bad need to be followed until they can be changed.

and yes if you speed around the area i live, and refuse to, moderate you speed, i would indeed inform the police. as it is a high child to house ratio.

I doubt that it's criminal anyhow. Maybe some kind of civil fine but who even has the time to worry about such nonsense... other than some politician who didn't get paid off by the pet crawfish importers. I sure hope you guys haven't gotten to the point of throwing someone in jail for keeping a pet crawfish.

You do know that if the authorities find out they will destroy the cray don't you?
Same goes for any other illegally kept aquatic creature.

they can also remove the rest of you fish and ban you from fish keeping!

 

[14gtr14]

...I'm glad I don't live in your neighborhood. You'd be calling the cops on me every time I come speeding down your street. You should worry more about the terrorists trying to blow you up rather than someone keeping a pet crawfish. I doubt that it's criminal anyhow. Maybe some kind of civil fine but who even has the time to worry about such nonsense... other than some politician who didn't get paid off by the pet crawfish importers....

Just because there is a law on the books doesn't make it right. If that was the case, slavery would still exist today. Sometimes lawmakers do pretty stupid things while more serious things are going on.

lenny, It isn't really about people keeping them it's about what would happen if they escaped/were released. They would devestate the natural ecosystem, just as boboboy implied and severum boy said too. I think it is most definitely better to stay within the realms of the law if it is to protect native flora/fauna. ...not really much to do with slavery lol

 

[GoldLenny]

Correct. But the laws are and should be against releasing them, not just keeping them.

Same for the speeding analogy. They don't make it illegal to own a car that goes over the speed limit, it's illegal for you to drive it over the speed limit.

When government gets over-restrictive in the laws they pass, they just make more people law-breakers. It's foolish to be worried about keeping someone from owning a pet that when kept properly will never cause a problem to anyone. There are far worse things that your government and mine should be worried about... Terrorism, Nuclear Proliferation by nations that harbor Terrorists, etc.

Now, if someone is irresponsible, is abusing an animal or does release it illegally into the wild, that person should be punished... but they shouldn't punish responsible pet owners because of the few irresponsible ones.

And as far as my speeding, personally, I can drive my car fast and much better than 99% of the idiots who out there that the government has licensed to drive.

 

[Invader Xan]

Correct. But the laws are and should be against releasing them, not just keeping them.

Same for the speeding analogy. They don't make it illegal to own a car that goes over the speed limit, it's illegal for you to drive it over the speed limit.

...

Now, if someone is irresponsible, is abusing an animal or does release it illegally into the wild, that person should be punished... but they shouldn't punish responsible pet owners because of the few irresponsible ones.

I'm afraid you're still rather missing the point.

http/www.defra.gov.uk/fish/freshwater/crayfish.htm
This is the actual website detailing the UK legislation. I suggest you read it before continuing this discussion.

The point is that you can punish someone all you like for releasing crayfish into the wild. But what's punishment for one person good for when an ecosystem has already been destroyed? For example, the UK is currently facing issues with the Chinese Mitten Crab. This crab, like most decapod crustaceans, is intelligent, produces a huge amount of offspring and has no natural predators in the UK. As a result, this crab (which arrived by accident via a cargo vessel) is steadily destroying ecosystems across the South coast of the UK -- and threatening a number of native species with possible extinction by outcompeting them. Then there's the crayfish plague...

I do personally believe Defra need to reassess a few other crayfish (the dwarf orange in particular), but in the mean time, a law is a law. It has nothing to do with amateur aquarium keepers -- it's about the environment. The environment which has already been seriously damaged by people with irresponsible attitudes. For what it's worth, as much as I'd like to keep one of those cute little crays, I don't want one if it's potential escape might harm local wildlife.

 

[fatboy]

Correct. But the laws are and should be against releasing them, not just keeping them.
...
Now, if someone is irresponsible, is abusing an animal or does release it illegally into the wild, that person should be punished... but they shouldn't punish responsible pet owners because of the few irresponsible ones.

I agree with your sentiment but think this is one issue where a ban is justified. Cray keeping is licenced because owners were releasing them and the exisiting ban on doing so was considered a failure. To limit this happening a ban on owning 'ornamental pets' was introduced - they can still be owned for food production or sceintific use - and will hopefully slow the introduction of invasive species even if it doesn't stop it. The interests of anglers and other waterbody users outweighed the interests of aquarists.

By the way, burrowing crays can be devastating. They can decimate salmon population and cause bank collapse, a big problem in a country where many riverbanks are near sub-urban footpaths, railway lines etc. They're not a minor problem, unfortunately.

We British do have a 'ban the object, not the behaviour' mentality at times. Look at our absurd, worthless handgun laws for an example. Banning a type of firearm because criminals were using them in crimes was outrageous. The whole point of criminals is that they'll commit crimes so making pistols illegal was always going to be pointless.

Edit: never mind, my jibe at Californian gun laws isn't relevant to someone living in Louisiana not L.A.

P.S. Our crab can kick your crayfish's butt!
http/www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/aquatics/greencrab.shtml

 

[fishboy619]

come on guys, please dont argue, i didnt know they are illegal in this country, i should have checked before hand. i agree its a stupid law not allowing me to have one, but only as i want one, if i really thought about it, it would make sence, the chinese mittet crab has had a large inpact on the UK, and i would hate for any other animal to do the same, end of the day, as much as i would like a cray, its the law that says im not allowed one, so really thats it, no argue.
sorry for bringing this up, please lets not start a huge debate and get this topic closed.

 

[fatboy]

sorry for bringing this up, please lets not start a huge debate and get this topic closed.

Actually I'm enjoying the debate. It's interesting to learn more about why things like this might be banned and have my existing opinions challenged.

It also lets me rant about British gun laws, something I enjoy doing when I get the excuse.

 

[GoldLenny]

Correct. But the laws are and should be against releasing them, not just keeping them.
...
Now, if someone is irresponsible, is abusing an animal or does release it illegally into the wild, that person should be punished... but they shouldn't punish responsible pet owners because of the few irresponsible ones.

I agree with your sentiment but think this is one issue where a ban is justified. Cray keeping is licenced because owners were releasing them and the exisiting ban on doing so was considered a failure.

Most laws inhibiting poor decisions by humans are abject failures. They have speeding laws... people still speed. So they should oulaw cars using the banned crayfish analogy. A banned crayfish might harm the ecology... speeding cars KILL people! But even spineless politicians realize they can't ban all cars. They are only allowed to ban crayfish because it only affects a few hobbyists so the spineless politicians can pass these "feel-good" laws, while ignoring the much worse things going on in society. Now, I'm not for banning cars, I'm just using that as an example of why crayfish should not be banned. Same for drinking and driving... against the law, but it's still violated all the time and PEOPLE DIE... but they aren't banning the cars in that case either.

To limit this happening a ban on owning 'ornamental pets' was introduced - they can still be owned for food production or sceintific use - and will hopefully slow the introduction of invasive species even if it doesn't stop it. The interests of anglers and other waterbody users outweighed the interests of aquarists.

Right... it had to do with the "squeaky wheel got the grease" so the lobbyists working for the angler hobby squawked enough that stupid laws were passed to make the spineless politicians feel good while ignoring the fact that they won't work. Irresponsible people will still smuggle them in, just like they do when they break any other law... whether it be drug smuggling, pedophelia, rape, murder, etc.

We British do have a 'ban the object, not the behaviour' mentality at times. Look at our absurd, worthless handgun laws for an example. Banning a type of firearm because criminals were using them in crimes was outrageous. The whole point of criminals is that they'll commit crimes so making pistols illegal was always going to be pointless.

Edit: never mind, my jibe at Californian gun laws isn't relevant to someone living in Louisiana not L.A.

Yep! Now you are agreeing with what I'm talking about! And you can make jibes at California all you want.. it's the land of some of the most ridiculous laws and the hollywood left. One day the Andreas fault is going to open up and Cali will separate from the USA and we'll be better off for it!

P.S. Our crab can kick your crayfish's butt!
http/www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/aquatics/greencrab.shtml

Ya'll just need to learn how to cook the lil buggers and then you'll have people gobbling them down so they won't be a problem anymore.

http/www.gumbopages.com/food/seafood/craw-boil.html
http/www.lacrawfish.com/

We even have a clothing line where the Louisiana Mudbug (crawfish) is the logo on Polo shirts, boxers, u-name-it and they have the crawfish logo on it.
http/www.perlis.com/product_info.php?products_id=2

And our favorite saying at a crawfish boil... "Pinch the tail and suck the head!" LOL
That comes from sucking the juices out of the head after pinching the end of the tail to release the meat. MMMMM MMMMM MMMMMM!!!!