Mbuna And Small Tanks

[denis coghlan]

Since I started posting on this forum, there has always been the question "can I put mbuna in a 30 gallons tank or less" and I'm sure the question was about long before that.

The automatic responce that is always given is always "NO" and the second answer is "SHELLDWELLERS" normally some sort of species of ocellatus is suggested. I have nothing against shelldwellers and one day I would like to get some myself.

But is that the only possible alternative and can mbuna really not be used?

Just for this post lets discuss the following for a tank idea. .

Take a 18" cube tank. This gives us roughly 21uk gallons or 25 us gallons. The tank has a footprint of 276 square inches. For an example I whipped a picture from jemrams 18â€￾ cube post in the SW section. Add rock in a similar fashion as shown in the picture and I can only imagine that this is an ideal setup (minus the live-rock and salt water) for a small single species group of cynotilapia.

After browsing the profile section at cichlid-forum.com it seems on average that cynotilapia are only one inch larger then their closely related shelldwelling cousins. (For people reference cynotilapia grow to a max of about three inches.) In terms of aggression surly it would be possible to get the male to female ration correct and with only having one male in the tank territorial aggression should be nil.

This suggests that the only problem would be the male in the tank constantly pestering the female. Is this the only reason why these fish or not kept in such tanks or is it just not the done thing?

What are people options on this?

 

[Ferris]

Good thread tanks If we get some good opinions - i'll think about pinning this.

My own opinion is that Mbuna are extremely active fish and need plenty of space if you want to see the best of them. As we know they are very territorial and aggressive to con-specifics hence the need to either provide plenty of room or over-stock to help spread this aggression around.

Whilst over-stocking clearly works in aquaria - the simple truth is that this is a completely unnatural environment for them - remember they have an entire lake to explore in Malawi. I don't have a problem with over-stocking - indeed it is virtually a neccessity for Mbuna keepers but i think we sometimes need a reminder that this is a tool that we use to make keeping them possible and not something for the benefit of the fish.

One of my most memorable Mbuna tanks was a 55 gal a few years back that had 3 adults in for around 18 months - never had any aggression problems and each fish had their own territory. These 3 fish displayed very different behaviours to the more crowded tanks i have kept. My current 65 gal is slightly under-stocked by Mbuna standards - i guess i just prefer it this way.

The other issue is the diference between juvenile/sub-adult Mbuna and full grown adults should not be underestimated. As i have said many times - you do not have a successful Mbuna tank untill the inhabitants are adults. A large or generically incompatible mix of Mbuna juveniles can and will work but when they grow up, you are likely to have WWIII on your hands unless you get the mix right.

If you take the 30 gal tank as an example, you could keep a small species only setup of Afra's or Saulosi with 1 male and a few females - this has been done and done successfully. You still can't get away from the fact that the same species and number of fish in a 55 gal would be much happier with the extra room and also opens up more possibilities to the fishkeeper.

I think the bottom line is - it can be done with lots of care and research. My own opinion however is that it can be done much better with a 55 gal or larger tank.

After all, why keep these stunning fish in anything less that the perfect environment.

 

[adambrum]

Mmm

I really think its the length of the tank that's important rather than the footprint for example if you had the afras and the male takes the middle as its territory no matter where the females are they are still in his territory and when he chases them they have nowhere to go without hitting glass.

on the other hand if you had a smaller version of an acei which uses more of the height of the tank it might work or a tank of females i believe some shoal like female afra.

so maybe it can be done maybe i cant but IMO don't try it unless you what your doing and have a tank for when it doest.

I had a thought about the perfect mbuna tank a ring about 18" high and 5ft diameter and use the middle for filter ect.

 

[Ferris]

I had a thought about the perfect mbuna tank a ring about 18" high and 5ft diameter and use the middle for filter ect.

Interesting idea - would look superb in the middle of a living room (if the room's big enough )

 

[adambrum]

Thought about that, you could have half in one room and half in another.

The fish can can chase each other all day they wont catch them

 

[Nick Sw]

I think it one of those where there is no definitive answer.
Maybe like Ferris has said above 1 Male and 3 Females could work very well if you get lucky and get a good group of fish on the other hand if suddenly an aggression issue (spawning or other) arises one of the fish is going to end up in the corner hardly daring to move. (You may of seen this in some LFS tanks, I know I have!)

The problem is they can`t really get out of site or further than 18" away which I don`t think is ideal.

I`m not against trying it and see what happens.

Also agree with Adam a long shallow tank is obviously much better than a cube for Mbuna.

 

[adambrum]

Here is a little vid of my afra on a bit of a mad one, imagine it in a 18" tank oh and its fully grown at 3"

afra

 

[jayjay]

Hmmmm I'd say shelldwellers, Brichardi, Julies and a few other Tang. fish would be suitable for about 20g.

I'd think saulosi could work in a 30g maybe yellow labs I want to be able to keep yellow labs just don't have a tank I could use

 

[Nick Sw]

Nice Afra Adam he`s a beauty.

 

[Druchii]

i've quickly scanned thorugh this thread (lots of replys in a short time )

so hope i just don't talk waffle

length of tank able to split into definative terratories is the most important factor for mbuna over literage or foot print (like has already been mentioned)

length is also more important than height, but then we must also include factors such as shelter..... a 30 long tank is no good to man nor beast if there is little protective cover in, an uber fish could control it all and stress kill other fish easily, than say a smaller tank we more rockwork etc etc..