Malawi are turning my head...

[Wills]

So as a few of you will know I have a 75 gallon tank sitting empty waiting for us to complete some building work in our house. The original plan was for it to be based around Nicaraguan Cichlids with Rainbows and Live Bearers but for a few reasons I'm losing a bit of enthusiasm for that set up...

I know quite a bit (probably too much) about Central American Cichlids but comparatively much less when it comes to Africans and in this case Malawis. I know the groups are split into Mbunas, Peacocks and Haps. And I know its usually a choice between Mbunas and Peacocks and Haps, mainly due to diets and also the scaping choices, so I can make peace with that.

The two routes I'm thinking of are a Mbuna tank (and I have a growing short list of species I'm interested in) or a male-only Peacock and Hap tank - though I have less rounded ideas of what I want this to look like.

In terms of Mbunas this is my current (but growing short list)

- Metriaclima Zebta Chilumaba 'Maisoni Reef'
- Iodotropheus Sprengerae - Rusty Cichlid
- Pseudotropheus Williamsi North Blue Lips
- Pseudotropheus Saulosi
- Pseudotropheus Ndumbi Super Red Top
- Labidochromis Blue White Tanzania

Still early in my research so any advice on how to approach it or if I've listed any crazy aggressive species or if I'm on the right track.

Wills

 

[GaryE]

Please, out of kindness - Africa is huge and you are talking fish from ONE lake in east Africa. The whole hobby does it - it's not your fault. But we have to start somewhere, said the west and central African river Cichlid keeper.

Pet peeve, got that off my chest!

Mbuna are a different show compared to CA Cichlids. First off, you can crowd them. And they have great colours. Your list looks good to me, but I fear you may soon tire of their behaviour. It's good to try them to find out. No active broodcare, constant fighting, no pair bonding. I would say you are on the right track in your choices though. I used to breed a lot of sprengerae as they weren't common (so they'd sell). They are more peaceful than the others there, but they can handle themselves.

 

[AquaBarb]

Not sure an african set up could top your dream tank Wills tbh but id go male Peacock over Mbuna. some of the Aulonocara are stunning

When i was looking into a african tank i was quite taken by the Lethrinops family particularly the red cap...wow!

 

[Alice B]

it's only a 75, you sure you don't want to go for a 150 and get some nice frontosas in there?

 

[Wills]

Please, out of kindness - Africa is huge and you are talking fish from ONE lake in east Africa. The whole hobby does it - it's not your fault. But we have to start somewhere, said the west and central African river Cichlid keeper.

Pet peeve, got that off my chest!

Mbuna are a different show compared to CA Cichlids. First off, you can crowd them. And they have great colours. Your list looks good to me, but I fear you may soon tire of their behaviour. It's good to try them to find out. No active broodcare, constant fighting, no pair bonding. I would say you are on the right track in your choices though. I used to breed a lot of sprengerae as they weren't common (so they'd sell). They are more peaceful than the others there, but they can handle themselves.

Thanks Gary - you are very right I should have said Malawi is turning my head haha!

I think some of the behaviour you mentioned I would miss from Americans is actually sometimes what I dont love. I typically only keep single specimens when I do americans as I dont want the commitment of breeding etc. Aggression comes in all form so prepared for that and I just like the idea of having 1-2 of each species, which probably goes more for the Peacocks.

What kind of numbers do you think to go for with the species I mentioned?

Wills

Not sure an african set up could top your dream tank Wills tbh but id go male Peacock over Mbuna. some of the Aulonocara are stunning

When i was looking into a african tank i was quite taken by the Lethrinops family particularly the red cap...wow!

I do have reservations haha... but think my standards for the Nicaraguan Cichlid are so high I'll never find them... and also terrified of Mycobacteria with the Rainbowfish. I've also realised recently that I have 2 very very good home breeder/ fish house types very close to me - one in Pontefract and one in Bridlington. They are appointment-only places but might send them a message and say I'm thinking about it can I come have a look.

it's only a 75, you sure you don't want to go for a 150 and get some nice frontosas in there?

A Tanganyikan tank did catch my eye too - really like Tropheus and Petrochromis tanks, think a 75 could work for some of them too but not as keen as some of the others... Don't think I can commit to a bigger tank right now just in terms of maintenance and time.

 

[Wills]

Also just to add some visuals to this idea...

Wills

 

[AquaBarb]

Very nice Wills having hard water certainly would suit the africans. Would you need to add any rift lake conditioner or is your water hard enough already?

A few more for your list to look at if not already on it

Aulonocara Jacobfreibergi "lemon Jake"
*Aulonocara Stuartgranti "Blue Neon"
*Aulonocara Stuartgranti "flavescent Peacock"
*Placidochromis Lalo Reef
*Lethrinops Red cap
*Labidochromis Caerulevs (yellow lab)
*Pseudotropheus Acei

 

[GaryE]

I never kept many peacocks. They came in mainly hybridized after I had drifted out of Malawis. Mbuna are the only really good for crowding characters for aquarists who want Cichlids but want riots of colour.
A lot has changed in the names too, as research has gone on. The hybridization too. I'm a wild type keeper, and tend to shy away from the linebred or crossed fish. I'm interested to see how more current keepers crowd. I'll keep quiet on numbers til I hear fresher voices.
I'm so ancient that the hot new fish then was the yellow lab. I paid a solid price for them and they bred like mice with my Iodotropheus in a 2 species tanks. I called it my gentle tank. They may be the fish I made the most money on ever. There was a period of 'mbuna mania' when they were the biggest thing in the hobby, and if you could breed them (and all you needed was both sexes and minimal skills: they breed like guppies) you could sell them for good prices everywhere. I would say 75% of the people in the local club were there to get Malawis.
By 10 years ago, no one was into them. We're a fickle, trendy bunch.
I had my quiet 2 species Malawi tank, and my rumble arena with what were then Pseudotropheus zebra forms, now a wide range of mainly Metriacilima as research showed the forms to be species.

One useful observation in all this is about water. I had pH 7.4, 140 ppm water that was drawn from a river and held in limestone reservoirs. It was very well buffered, but not incredibly hard. I bred many Apistogramma in it, without doctoring it. I also bred and raised very healthy mbuna in it with no problem. At first, I went out and bought an API kit (I actually owned one once) and tested all the time. I hardened the water. In time, as I spoke to experienced breeders in the region, I stopped. The water was more stable undoctored and the fish were thriving. Locally, there were at least ten breeders in their sixties and up running 50 to 150 tank set ups and churning out mbuna for the stores and for other hobbyists. They all ran straight local tap, and I did too.

They also all adjusted their water to add minerals to it for Tanganyikans.

 

[Wills]

Very nice Wills having hard water certainly would suit the africans. Would you need to add any rift lake conditioner or is your water hard enough already?

A few more for your list to look at if not already on it

Aulonocara Jacobfreibergi "lemon Jake"
*Aulonocara Stuartgranti "Blue Neon"
*Aulonocara Stuartgranti "flavescent Peacock"
*Placidochromis Lalo Reef
*Lethrinops Red cap
*Labidochromis Caerulevs (yellow lab)
*Pseudotropheus Acei

Thats part of my thinking with the hard water, I've started to embrace it with the original plans for this tank but the plan I've put in is so limited and so many of the fish are rare, that I may be able to source over time but if something went wrong what then? So many good South American shops and loads of options but on the Centrals side its so limited whereas with Malawi in particular there are so many options.

I think my water may be hard enough - gh of about 14 and ph about 7.5 I need to decide on what kind of sand and rocks I want to use. I'm thinking of getting an Aquadecor 3D background to hide equipment but also roots of terrestrial plants as I want to use some to help with nitrates (my other battle)...

I do like Peacocks and Haps I've not put a proper list together yet of what I'd go for but loads of options, just seem to be bigger fish where as some of the species I've mentioned are only 4 inch fish where as peacocks are more 6/7 and haps even bigger.

These are the places quite near me that I want to check out in the near future http://kevsrifts.co.uk/ https://www.tonysafricancichlids.co.uk/ both about 45mins in different directions from my house but seem to have pretty iconic reputations.

I never kept many peacocks. They came in mainly hybridized after I had drifted out of Malawis. Mbuna are the only really good for crowding characters for aquarists who want Cichlids but want riots of colour.
A lot has changed in the names too, as research has gone on. The hybridization too. I'm a wild type keeper, and tend to shy away from the linebred or crossed fish. I'm interested to see how more current keepers crowd. I'll keep quiet on numbers til I hear fresher voices.
I'm so ancient that the hot new fish then was the yellow lab. I paid a solid price for them and they bred like mice with my Iodotropheus in a 2 species tanks. I called it my gentle tank. They may be the fish I made the most money on ever. There was a period of 'mbuna mania' when they were the biggest thing in the hobby, and if you could breed them (and all you needed was both sexes and minimal skills: they breed like guppies) you could sell them for good prices everywhere. I would say 75% of the people in the local club were there to get Malawis.
By 10 years ago, no one was into them. We're a fickle, trendy bunch.
I had my quiet 2 species Malawi tank, and my rumble arena with what were then Pseudotropheus zebra forms, now a wide range of mainly Metriacilima as research showed the forms to be species.

One useful observation in all this is about water. I had pH 7.4, 140 ppm water that was drawn from a river and held in limestone reservoirs. It was very well buffered, but not incredibly hard. I bred many Apistogramma in it, without doctoring it. I also bred and raised very healthy mbuna in it with no problem. At first, I went out and bought an API kit (I actually owned one once) and tested all the time. I hardened the water. In time, as I spoke to experienced breeders in the region, I stopped. The water was more stable undoctored and the fish were thriving. Locally, there were at least ten breeders in their sixties and up running 50 to 150 tank set ups and churning out mbuna for the stores and for other hobbyists. They all ran straight local tap, and I did too.

They also all adjusted their water to add minerals to it for Tanganyikans.

I think one of the thing that has put me off Malawi for so long is the hybrids - mbuna seem to still be reasonably simple to get species but you are right the names have changed a lot, and because they have been out of trend for a while a lot of the profiles online are not accurate - nor are the names in shops... I think the hybrids are mainly in the Peacock side with the 'Orange Blotch' or OB strains... I've still not made my mind up how I feel about them as they are not as 'bad' to me as Flowerhorns or Parrots that the American side has to answer for...

Wills

 

[Wills]

@GaryE you might have to give it to me old school as no one else is playing haha.

@AquaBarb had a bit of advice from somewhere else and found a list I like for peacocks like this

Ngara Flametail -Aulonocara stuartgranti
Ruby Red -Aulonocara Rubescens
Bi-Color 500 - Aulonocara maulana
Sunshine - Aulonocara sp. stuartgranti "Maleri"
Red Blaze - Otopharynx lithobates Red Blaze
Fireline Mloto - Copadichromis Trewavasae Mloto Likoma
Placidochromis electra

X5:
Electric Yellow -Labidochromis Caeruleus Lions Cove

I might go for white labs though - bit of personal preference but not 100%

Again just for some visuals check these out...

PLUS a group of yellow or white labs! Are you mad! hmmm think this might be me sold...

Just need to work out if I can get them all...

Wills

 

[GaryE]

Here's my question.

Those peacocks get a good size. They also live in a different environment within Lake Malawi than mbuna do. Can they be crowded?

I have an elderly friend who got an unhybridized species from a reputable importer 25 years ago. The problem then as now was the similarity of females, and from the start, the fish had been mixed up in export facilities. His came via a hobbyist collector.

He keeps his in a 65 gallon, but he can only have one male at a time, or murder most foul happens. He usually has 1 male and 3-4 females in the tank, and a tank on the side with insurance males that he sells as new broods come along. He has managed to keep them for a long time, over a few generations, but one stunning male at a time.

My only peacocks were a bag of mislabelled South American Cichlids I bought in an auctions for $2, because I needed fish for a school tank., They turned out to be East African 'strawberry peacocks', and all 7 were female. So I didn't learn much there.

 

[Wills]

Here's my question.

Those peacocks get a good size. They also live in a different environment within Lake Malawi than mbuna do. Can they be crowded?

I have an elderly friend who got an unhybridized species from a reputable importer 25 years ago. The problem then as now was the similarity of females, and from the start, the fish had been mixed up in export facilities. His came via a hobbyist collector.

He keeps his in a 65 gallon, but he can only have one male at a time, or murder most foul happens. He usually has 1 male and 3-4 females in the tank, and a tank on the side with insurance males that he sells as new broods come along. He has managed to keep them for a long time, over a few generations, but one stunning male at a time.

My only peacocks were a bag of mislabelled South American Cichlids I bought in an auctions for $2, because I needed fish for a school tank., They turned out to be East African 'strawberry peacocks', and all 7 were female. So I didn't learn much there.

They are different to the Mbuna - so the tank would be much more open with lots of swimming space. The yellow/white labs are a little different to other Mbuna as they are omnivoires so sit between peacocks and haps (carnivores) and mbuna (algae grazers) so can go either side. The Labs will benefit from some rock work so I need to work out a way of doing that, I think the Aquadecor background could be a good option to go with though, maybe get some of their fake rocks if I'm not convinced I can get real ones to match?

My understanding is that in an all male tank without the females if you get the numbers - most people suggest about 12 fish in a 75 gallon and as long as none of them look to visually similar the aggression should be minimal. I've read that there are considered two groups one is aggressive and the other is timid - I've gone for the timid route.

I've possibly moved away from Mbuna as starting to think I'll only get 3-4 species in there and some of the species I like the males of have dull females and I dont want to go down that route.

I'm going to keep researching to find more of these 'timid' peacocks so I have a broader list. I've looked on 2-3 high end stores stock lists and I can get most of them right now but not all and its suggested you put them in as groups (even as different species). Maybe I'll start the tank with the labs and add the peacocks as the stars align?

Might also get some Synodontis Petricola in here too to help keep on top of fry from the labs (and cos I like them too)...

Wills

 

[Wills]

Meant to say too I believe most of the fish in the peacock/haps list get 5-6 inches. One of them might get to 8 inches but seems to be mixed? Staying away from the big 10/12 inch haps 100% as much as I like the Giraffe Haps...

 

[AquaBarb]

@GaryE you might have to give it to me old school as no one else is playing haha.

@AquaBarb had a bit of advice from somewhere else and found a list I like for peacocks like this

Ngara Flametail -Aulonocara stuartgranti
Ruby Red -Aulonocara Rubescens
Bi-Color 500 - Aulonocara maulana
Sunshine - Aulonocara sp. stuartgranti "Maleri"
Red Blaze - Otopharynx lithobates Red Blaze
Fireline Mloto - Copadichromis Trewavasae Mloto Likoma
Placidochromis electra

X5:
Electric Yellow -Labidochromis Caeruleus Lions Cove

I might go for white labs though - bit of personal preference but not 100%

Again just for some visuals check these out...
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View attachment 312326
View attachment 312327
View attachment 312328
View attachment 312329

PLUS a group of yellow or white labs! Are you mad! hmmm think this might be me sold...

Just need to work out if I can get them all...

Wills

Nice Wills love the red blaze and maulana. The blue and the yellows in the African fish are lovely.

I think the white labs are a good idea

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

@Wills For what it's worth, I have a 75gal that I converted over to Chindongo (syn. Pseudotropheus) saulosi about 6 months ago. I love it! It quickly became on of my favorite tanks. The constant activity. The behavioral differences between the females/juveniles and the males is interesting. And then of course, there is the color! It is cliché in the FW portion of the hobby to compare fish color to those found on the saltier side. But particularly the females of this species are nearly yellow tang colored; same color saturation, but a bit more orange. I can sometimes grow tired of setups, and I have a bad habit of changing mine out too often. But with this species in this size tank, I hope to never be without it again. I think I have, at long last, finally found something to settle on. Something that really suits me.