Many Q. Little Help?

[Fishnub]

Right i have many questions to ask the seasoned fish owners and i would greatly appreciate any help as i am fairly new and am getting mixed advice from all over the place.

I started by buying a 30l and had 2 Shubunkin in it, then progressed to 60l and added to Orandos. I am aware these will grow to ? But they are adopted, so it was either my tank temporarily or death. Eventually another adopted Shubunkin was added, so that leaves me with 3 Shubunkin and 2 Orandos in a 60l tank. I did not leave my 60l tank to cycle, but it has been set up well, and i am adding soon, a moss ball, and some plants. Will do this within time. Need some serious advice as i got thrown into the hobby and along with some self confessed ignorance have not been left in a desired state. Fish seem to be healthy and well, fed twice a day and gave 10 hours of light(although they do like to flip out when i first turn the light on, they appear scared). I have a Juwel Rekord 60.

Cheers Guys!

 

[rdd1952]

Merry Christmas and welcome to the forum.

As you already know, you will eventually need to upgrade to a larger tank but at least you saved the fish. If your tank isn't cycled, you probably have a good build up of ammonia. Goldfish are extremely hardy (although I'm not certain how the shubunkins and orandas are) and can handle a pretty high level but it would still be best if you did water changes to keep them down. Even though they will most likely survive, they will still be harmed by the high levels, especially high nitrite as it works on the fish internally. Do you have a test kit (liquid is better and cheaper in the long run if you are going to buy one)? If so, what are your readings for ammonia and nitrite?

For now, I would cut back to one small feeding a day. Less food means less waste and goldfish are big waste producers. They can easily get by on a single feeding a day (actually can go several days between feedings without problems). As for the lights, you really only need them on while you're there to view them. The fish don't need them at all as they get plenty of ambient light during the day. Also, hopefully, you haven't set the tank up where it is exposed to direct sunlight as that can lead to algae and green water.

 

[Fishnub]

Hi thanks for the reply, no its out of sunlight and i put these drops in it to keep the levels down a tad? Will i have to get rid off all of them, as i have heard keeping the Orandos may be an option as some of them can only grow to be 2-3 inches. Any more advice would help.

 

[rdd1952]

I have never kept them so I cant really say for sure. Hopefully others can shed more light on it. You may also try posting in the Coldwater section. as they are much more knowledgeable on shubunkins and orandas.

What type drops are you adding? As a general rule, you are always better off if you stay away from chemicals other than dechlorinator and possibly ferts if you have live plants. Some products may help with the ammonia but prevent the tank from ever cycling, thus making you dependent on expensive additives.

 

[Colin_T]

If the tank doesn't have an established fully functioning biological filter running on it, I would cut the feeding back to once every second day. As mentioned by rdd, the more food going into the tank, the higher the ammonia and nitrite levels will get. The higher the levels get, the more stress the fish will suffer. Fish can go for weeks without food because they take their body temperature from the surrounding water. Unlike mammals that use most of the food they eat to keep warm.
I would also do a 30-50% water change each day or every second day. Basically feed them one day and do a water change the next. Make sure any new water going into the tank is free of chlorine before it is added.
If you have an ammonia & nitrite test kit, then check the levels and if they get above 1ppm then do a 50% water change. If you don't have test kits then just do water changes as often as possible (once a day).

It is preferable to keep fantail goldfish (two tailed) separate from single tail/ common goldfish. This is due to the fantails (black moors, orandas, ryukins, etc) being shorter and fatter with longer fins. This makes it harder for them to swim. Single tail goldfish (comets, shubunkins, etc) are streamlined and move a lot faster and more easily through the water. Having fantails and single tails together is an issue because the fantails don't get as much food. And if they breed the single tail fish can chase the fantails around to the point of exhaustion and possible even death. They will be fine together for a while but should eventually be separated.

Fish don't have eyelids so in the morning you should open the curtains or turn the room lights on first. Wait 15-30minutes and then turn the tank lights on. This allows the fish to wake up without being blinded by the tank lights. Then at night turn the room lights on, then turn the tank lights off. Wait 30minutes before turning the room lights off.

Goldfish are vegetarian and will eat many sorts of plants. You can limit the damage they do to the aquarium plants by feeding them fresh or cooked (but cool) fruits and veges. You can use most veges but avoid onions and potatoes. Peas, pumpkin, zucchini are good to use. A vege flake can also be used.
Having lots of plants in the tank will help too. Some will grow while the others get chomped. If the tank is newly set up then try to have the lights on for 12-16 hours a day. This will encourage algae but the algae will use some of the ammonia that is being produced and help keep the water safer for the fish. Once the tank has finished cycling (filters have established) then you can reduce the lighting period to about 8-12hours a day. You can reduce it further if you still get lots of algae after that.

edited to add that the pumps and filters should be run continuosly, all day every day.
Sorry wasn't sure if they were

 

[Fishnub]

Thanks for the help i really appreciate it, the drops were the ones you get with the tank, which you add to the tap water. But as i said the force were pretty much forced on me which has led to cumbersome acts. Its just when i turn on the lights they get very stressed, so i was going to wait until i built up a kind of coral reef, so at leasst when i turn it on they could hide/ sheild their eyes. I will get a water testing kit, cheers for the advice.

What do you advise i do with the fish? Take the Shubunkins to a pet shop? Will having the fish in their help with my cycle for when i go tropical? Thanks guys.

P.s Could you advise me on what fish to get. At the moment im thinking, Five neon tetras, a clean up crew (2 apple snails, shrimp, and catfish i think) and am now stuck for ideas.

 

[Colin_T]

I would keep the fish in the 60litre tank and try to get a bigger tank in the future some time. If you don't plan on getting a bigger tank in the next 12 months then perhaps take the shubunkins to the petshop and keep the orandas in the 60l tank. The orandas won't grow as big as the shubunkins or as quickly so they should be ok in that tank for a while as long as you keep the water clean and well filtered.

If you have a couple of fish in the tank it will help the tank to cycle and the filter develop the good bacteria necessary to keep the water clean. If you don't have fish in the tank then you will need to add some liquid ammonia each day to get the filters running.

 

[Fishnub]

Thanks dude, any advice on what fish to get?

 

[rabbut]

I'll just chip in the adult sizes of the fish you alrady have

Shubumpkins should grow to 3ft given the space, and need to be kept in a pond long-term. They need to be added in mid-to-late spring, or the low temperatures will kill them if they haven't had time to adjust

The Orandas will grow to Rugby ball size, again, given the space. They can be kept in a tank, but need 20g for the first fish, and an additional 10g for each new fish for long-term keeping. All goldfish need mammoth filtration when older. They produce a lot of waste, and you'd be forgiven for thinking a cat had used your tank as a toilet if you keep adults...

Looking over your Tropical Fish plans, the stockings sound good for this size tank. The only thing to note is that the small catfish like Corrydoras typically need a group of 4+, and catfish suitable to be kept alone, grow to 8+ inches, making them too big for your tank. With this in mind, you will want a group of 4 corries, rather than one

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Colin_T]

I've never seen a shubunkin 3ft long, it would be nice but unlikely. The biggest I have seen was about 12inches body size and another 6-8inches of tail. And they were old fish in a big pond.

 

[Fishnub]

Holy shizzle. 9Ft of Shubunkin and 2 rugby ball orandos. Ill try to find someone to adopt them when they grow a little bigger. Are tiger barbs little fin nippers? I want to make an artificial coral reef anyone have any advice what would be good to buy?

Thanks again guys loving the advice.

 

[wendywc]

Well the fish need to be coldwater or tolerant to coldwater if they are to be kept with goldfish. Like bitterlings, flagfish, white cloud minnows, weather loaches, and certain danios (zebras, leopards). Definately wouldn't have tiger barbs in there, they are tropical, need to be in big groups, and can be very nippy.

 

[rabbut]

^^The tropical fish are to be going in after the goldfish are passed out to others and the heater added

Colin_t, I too have never seen 3ft Shubumpkin, though being related to Koi quite closely, they should be very capable of those sizes... I had one in with my goldfish at one point, and he got to about 18-20 inches, so IMO, they deffinately can't be kept in a tank, unless the tank is getting towards the size of an indoor pond. My shub was still growing, but a heron moved in locally and had all the fish from the pond before we could do anything about it

Tiger Barbs can be nippy, but they will only nip IME if you shove something with long fins in there with them... Keep them in a group and keep the rest of the fish rather short-fined species and you should not have a problem with them

IMO, five Neons and 4 smaller corries would just about be enough The guideline is 1 inch of fish per gallon of water, and you have a 12g tank. Five neons at 2 inches a piece gives 10 inches of stocking used, and four corries at 2 inches each gives a further 8 inches used, bringing you upto 1.5 inches per gallon. These a low-waste fish, so you can bend the rule confortably to accomodate the origional 9 fish (Snails and Shrimp aren't counted in stockings unless there are loads of them as the produce neglagable ammounts of waste and use neglegable ammounts of oxygen and other tank resources).

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Fishnub]

Thanks Rabbut, so the clean up crew dont count when taking the inches per gallon into consideration. Google says 60l is 14.5 gallons, so could i sneak another nice fish in there? . Appreciate the help a lot!

 

[rabbut]

What "other nice fish" did you have in mind? A lot of answering a "will it will work" question on stocking realy depends on what fish you are looking at...

All the best
Rabbut