Lots Of Noob Questions About Ph And Cycling

[toomie]

Hi everyone, I`m new here, and new to fishkeeping as well. I have (as of today) 6 male bettas that are currently living in 1 gallon bowls and critter keepers. My goal is to get them into tanks asap, but I just started cycling 2 about 2 weeks ago, and so far I`m getting nowhere.

My first question, however, pertains to the ph of the water I`m using in their bowls. I tested it with the test kit(test tubes, not strips) and I got a reading of what appears to be 7.6. I wondered if it was actually higher, since this was the highest reading on that particular card, so I got out the bottle of high ph test solution and tested it again, and got a reading of 8. Am I using these solutions correctly? I`m not sure if the first reading is the one I should go by or not. Also, I do not have anything that lowers ph in the water. I have read that those things aren`t safe, and I have read where people recommend them, so I just don`t know what to do. If I do go ahead and get some ph down solution, do I put it in the tank with the fish, or do I put it into a fresh container of aged water , let it sit for awhile, then do a water change? One of my bettas (Smokin` Joe Frasier, my DH named him, lol) had a nasty case of fin rot when I got him, and that has been over a month ago, It got better, but has not gone away. I`m wondering if the ph is indeed too high, will that affect the fin rot problem?

Ok, now on to the cycling portion of this thread,...

I am doing a fishless cycle on a 5 gallon and a 3 gallon. Since I couldn`t find any pure ammonia, and everyone I called and asked for it acted like I was trying to build my own meth lab, I decided to use plain old fish food. I dumped a good amount in, or at least what I thought was a good amount. Enough to make the water pretty messed up looking at first anyway. I waited about a week before I took any readings since the food didn`t look like it was decaying. So far the ammonia readings in both tanks are less than zero, meaning the water in the tubes is completely clear. Zero is yellow, and my test tubes come out colorless. Is this normal? Do I need to keep adding fish food every day, or every other day, or whatever? One of the tanks does not yet have a heater, but the one that does is the same. Also, the fish food I added looks completely disgusting, it has turned into yellow fluffy looking globs of nastiness, but I guess that`s a good thing? Will the stuff completely disappear at some point?

Sorry this is so long, but I need help!!!

 

[bronzecat]

Hi

Regarding the Ph - Bettas are pretty adaptable fish, and i know people and breeders who also have high ph readings. Its worth bearing in mind when purchasing fish to ask what the sellers ph is. Then you can acclimatise accordingly The only issue with adjusting the ph, is that you have to keep it stable. Rising and falling ph is bad as it can cause ph shock and kill fish pretty quick. Its not something i need to worry about though, so maybe if Modaz reads this is he can confirm his high ph

Cycling - What filters are you using?

Using fish food is, as you have found out, messy and slow. If you are in the UK, Homebase do ammonia. If you are in the USA, i wouldn't know where to get it

Ammonia is the way to do it though

 

[toomie]

The tanks both came with their own filters, I`m using a submersible Whisper filter in the 3 gallon, and the 5 gallon came with an Aqua Tech 5-15 power filter.

And yes I am in the US.

 

[bronzecat]

Hi

I know people in the USA use ammonia, but dont know where you guys get it from. There's normally some of your fellow Americans signing on any time soon, so hopefully they can advise

I wouldn't worry about your Ph too much, but if you could get the ph tested by your lfs just to confirm your readings.

 

[newfishy]

some stores carry pure ammonia, some carry stuff tainted with other chemicals. when you find a bottle read the ingredients carefully and then give the bottle a very vigorous shaking and check for bubbles. any bubbles means the ammonia is not pure and will kill fish and the bacteria you are trying to grow.

when I fist started into fish I ended up doing 75% water changes twice daily fish in cycling because I didn’t know any better, never again. there is a product called biosphera that when refrigerated and properly used can nearly instant cycle a tank. but the stuff is super expensive. the other option is to find a friend with a healthy mature tank and use a small piece of their mature filter to clone yours.

the ph almost everywhere in pa is hard, super hard in fact. I have to do total tear downs and wipe the mineral deposits off my equipment every few months, same thing with our oil furnace as well. other then having a slightly harder time spawning the ph does not affect the bettas at all.

 

[LauraFrog]

If your ammonia tubes are coming out colourless then something is wrong... a below-zero reading is impossible, a negative result is yellow and when ammonia is present it will start to go green. Which test kit are you using? Most of them have two or three bottles and you need to make sure you've added all of them in the right order. Cycling with fish food is a pain in the backside but if you can't get ammonia it WILL work, and if the food has mould on it, then there should be ammonia showing by now.
Ammonia suitable for fishless cycling is a cloudy but clear liquid - it should not have white pearly stuff swirling around in it. When shaken vigorously, a few bubbles will form that will burst quickly on settling, it should not foam up. If it does, there's soap in it and it isn't suitable. Usually the cheapest and nastiest shops will have the one you're looking for. They're too scungy to put surfactants (soap) in it, and on the brand I use it actually has instructions on the label for adding soap to the solution to use it for floor cleaning.

Bio-spira, if you can get it, will cycle them almost instantly. Other bacterial additives are essentially useless as the bacteria are A) the wrong species and B) dead.

 

[toomie]

If your ammonia tubes are coming out colourless then something is wrong... a below-zero reading is impossible, a negative result is yellow and when ammonia is present it will start to go green. Which test kit are you using? Most of them have two or three bottles and you need to make sure you've added all of them in the right order. Cycling with fish food is a pain in the backside but if you can't get ammonia it WILL work, and if the food has mould on it, then there should be ammonia showing by now.
Ammonia suitable for fishless cycling is a cloudy but clear liquid - it should not have white pearly stuff swirling around in it. When shaken vigorously, a few bubbles will form that will burst quickly on settling, it should not foam up. If it does, there's soap in it and it isn't suitable. Usually the cheapest and nastiest shops will have the one you're looking for. They're too scungy to put surfactants (soap) in it, and on the brand I use it actually has instructions on the label for adding soap to the solution to use it for floor cleaning.

Bio-spira, if you can get it, will cycle them almost instantly. Other bacterial additives are essentially useless as the bacteria are A) the wrong species and B) dead.

Ok, I am using the API Master test kit, and your post has me looking at the directions again, and I see what I`m doing wrong,....DUH....I feel like a real dope......

I was only adding ONE of the ammonia solutions to the test tube!! *slaps forehead*

Ok, I`m now off to do it the RIGHT way, lol!!

Thanks for all your posts everyone, I really appreciate it.

I went to 5 stores looking for pure ammonia, and called 3 different places as well. I actually found what was marked as "pure" ammonia in one place, but when I did the shake test, it seemed there were more bubbles than I would have expected, so I wasn`t too sure if I should get it or not. Decided to play it safe.

 

[toomie]

WHOO HOO!!!!!
My results are as follows:
3 gallon is showing ammonia of 4.0, nitrate reading of somewhere between 0 and .25

5 gallon is showing ammonia of 8.0, nitrate reading of almost .5

I say almost because the color is a little off what the chart shows, but I think this is accurate.

My tanks are actually cycling, I am so HAPPY!!!!!!!!

 

[ct_hulhu]

If you still need it, Ace Hardware sells pure ammonia (Ace Hardware brand). Not sure if you have those in WV though. I used to live in that region and don't recall seeing any.

 

[LauraFrog]

Is that nitrAte or nitrIte that's showing in addition to the ammonia? If it's nitrite, it means the tanks have started to cycle, if it's nitrate it's probably present in the water supply.
It might be a good idea to do a small water change (about 15%, maybe 20%) on the five gallon as 8ppm ammonia is a little high. If the ammonia is above 8ppm when cycling, you accidentally select for the wrong species of bacteria, so when you add fish and you don't have as much ammonia being produced they starve, die, and leave you in the middle of a fish-in cycle. Also, 8ppm is the maximum reading on the API kit so it could be higher.

Sounds good anyway, you have ammonia being produced which means you SHOULD start seeing the tanks cycle.

 

[toomie]

Is that nitrAte or nitrIte that's showing in addition to the ammonia? If it's nitrite, it means the tanks have started to cycle, if it's nitrate it's probably present in the water supply.
It might be a good idea to do a small water change (about 15%, maybe 20%) on the five gallon as 8ppm ammonia is a little high. If the ammonia is above 8ppm when cycling, you accidentally select for the wrong species of bacteria, so when you add fish and you don't have as much ammonia being produced they starve, die, and leave you in the middle of a fish-in cycle. Also, 8ppm is the maximum reading on the API kit so it could be higher.

Sounds good anyway, you have ammonia being produced which means you SHOULD start seeing the tanks cycle.

It`s nitrite, I haven`t even tested for nitrates yet since I thought my ammonia wasn`t even registering.


When I do the water change, should I try to vacuum some of the nasty decaying fish food out of there? There is this one big glob of it that`s driving me nuts, lol. Or better to just leave it until I`m ready to add fish? The ammonia level I want is about 4, right?