Lethargic platy laying on the gravel - help

[Katsplaty]

Hello, still fairly new to the hobby. I upgraded to a 60 litre the other day and I have 9 platies, all male. I know the ratio etc but, seeing as my tank isn’t overly big, although big for me, I didn’t want to deal with the constant babies or the idea of them being eaten.
Anyway, I have one just laying on the gravel. His fins aren’t clamped and I have added ‘disease away, by interpet’ which usually helps but, nothing is working.
I have three really dominant fish and wondered if that was why, as the others are hiding a lot and clamping their fins.
I have just taken the two bullies out and left my original bully there because without them he might be okay, he’s not as persistent as the others..
Im stressed out with this. I just want them to get along.
Would adding a different species help? To distract?

I need to get my water tested but, when I changed the tank over I put my original filters in there.
Originally the stressed fish was a bully but, when I took him and one of the other bullies (blue fish) out after when I put them back in he was different and the blue fish the same bully.

The bullies are in perfect health, but the others are looking really stressed.

Help

 

[Neleono]

He is defiantly stressed. If you are able please provide as many water parameters as you can (Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, pH, water hardness). Also, is your tank dechlorinated? Furthermore, is your fish eating or using the restroom? If so, what color is the stool? Lastly, what is the temperature of the fish tank and do you have a heater? These things should help to identify a cause.

 

[Slaphppy7]

All FW fishkeepers should have one of these: https://apifishcare.com/product/freshwater-master-test-kit

 

[carligraceee]

Hello, still fairly new to the hobby. I upgraded to a 60 litre the other day and I have 9 platies, all male. I know the ratio etc but, seeing as my tank isn’t overly big, although big for me, I didn’t want to deal with the constant babies or the idea of them being eaten.
Anyway, I have one just laying on the gravel. His fins aren’t clamped and I have added ‘disease away, by interpet’ which usually helps but, nothing is working.
I have three really dominant fish and wondered if that was why, as the others are hiding a lot and clamping their fins.
I have just taken the two bullies out and left my original bully there because without them he might be okay, he’s not as persistent as the others..
Im stressed out with this. I just want them to get along.
Would adding a different species help? To distract?

I need to get my water tested but, when I changed the tank over I put my original filters in there.
Originally the stressed fish was a bully but, when I took him and one of the other bullies (blue fish) out after when I put them back in he was different and the blue fish the same bully.

The bullies are in perfect health, but the others are looking really stressed.

Help

I usually don't recommend keeping a single gender. I know it is SO HUGE in the keeping of livebearers but I find it is easier to get rid of babies then to keep stress levels down when you have fish that like to dominate.

I would recommend doing a 3:1 (female to male) ratio. If you don't want babies, leave them in the tank or tank them out and take them to your LFS.

Even females can get really aggressive and stress out your other fish. Males are notorious for this, and your situation shows it.

That is my advice.

 

[Crunchycrouton]

Hello, still fairly new to the hobby. I upgraded to a 60 litre the other day and I have 9 platies, all male. I know the ratio etc but, seeing as my tank isn’t overly big, although big for me, I didn’t want to deal with the constant babies or the idea of them being eaten.
Anyway, I have one just laying on the gravel. His fins aren’t clamped and I have added ‘disease away, by interpet’ which usually helps but, nothing is working.
I have three really dominant fish and wondered if that was why, as the others are hiding a lot and clamping their fins.
I have just taken the two bullies out and left my original bully there because without them he might be okay, he’s not as persistent as the others..
Im stressed out with this. I just want them to get along.
Would adding a different species help? To distract?

I need to get my water tested but, when I changed the tank over I put my original filters in there.
Originally the stressed fish was a bully but, when I took him and one of the other bullies (blue fish) out after when I put them back in he was different and the blue fish the same bully.

The bullies are in perfect health, but the others are looking really stressed.

Help

Could be internal parasites or a swim bladder problem... first, if your able to, put him in a hospital tank or a little floating breeder box and make sure he eats. If he tries to swim up and he sinks back down, then it’s likely a swim bladder problem. If his stool is discolored or stringy, then I wouldn’t doubt it’s internal parasites.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Do a large water change, 75%, ASAP.

You moved the filter over, but that looks like new gravel, along with the tank itself being new, yes? So you lost a huge amount of BB by changing over to a new tank. This is likely an ammonia spike due to switching to a new tank, and that's why the fish are going downhill.

Clean fresh water, declorinated and temperature matched to the tank temperature is the only solution, and also the best medicine. Don't add any other chemicals other thn declorinator and perhaps a bacterial starter/booster if you have any.

Then daily tests, keep feeding to a minimum, once every other day at the most, while the bacterial colonies from your filter grow and establish themselves in the new tank and on the new substrate. Look up what a mini cycle is, that's what you'll need to ride out now, and it'll likely mean daily water changes for the next week or so while those BB colonies grow back to previous levels, which were just the right amount to handle your tanks bioload, before you lost a big chunk of them.

Invest in a water testing kit - the liquid ones being the most accurate and value for money. Being able to test your water can be the difference between life and death for your fish. It's essential equipment.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Also, nothing wrong with a male only livebearer tank, IMO. Your tank really doesn't room for more than the nine male platies, adding another species wouldn't help at all, and would overcrowd your tank.

Male only tanks can work, but you need lot of hiding spaces, and things that break lines of sight, so the fish aren't constantly seeing each other, unable to hide, and have no distractions or environmental enrichment, which only leads to more bullying. Have had 30-35 male only livebearers sharing a tank as a grow out without problems. Some chasing and displaying happens, that's normal, but not relentless chasing of or by a particular individual, since the tanks were densely planted. When there was a rogue individual, that one had to be rehomed and wouldn't have settled in a male only tank, so there is some individual personality to take into account too. If one male is being singled out, that can be a sign that it's sick or weak in some way, since fish naturally try to chase away a sickly fish, since sick fish attract predators. If one male is a relentless bully who only picks a new target when his current target is removed, he'll need to be removed, since he won't settle in a male only tank.

But on the whole, male only tanks can work, with some careful tank design and monitoring. Live plants provide the best coverage, giving hiding spots and environmental enrichment, and also help improve your water quality too.

 

[Katsplaty]

Thank you all, I tested my water. No ammonia, I did add ‘love fish ammonia treatment’ earlier though.
My nitrates and nitrites were low.
My gravel isn’t all new. I put gravel from my old tank in there and added a small amount of new gravel as the tank is bigger.

I’ve noticed that a couple of others now have clamped fins and two are flicking against things.
My PH was higher around 8. Is that bad?
I know we have harder water here in England, I just don’t know what to do as I haven’t had anything that interpet disease away hasn’t dealt with.

All the decorations are the same, I have put in my old filter as well as the new one.
The bullies seem fine in their old tank right now, I have put the other old filter in there and some of the old gravel in there plus one plastic plant and two newer decorations.

I was told the PH on the bully tank was 6.5.
I just did a bit of a water change, about 4 litres before seeing your replies.
I’ve also bought new decorations/hiding places to help break up the open space in the new tank.

On the under side of some of their bellies it looks a bit red.
Poo seems normal reddish
I feed once a day: will do this once every day as suggested.

I don’t want to put salt in there as I had a fish jump out after I did that.

What do you think?
Thank you ?

 

[Colin_T]

It's either stress from bullying and the fish trying to re-establish the pecking order that was messed up when you moved them. Or it's poor water quality.

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Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Post pictures of all the fish and the tank.

Maybe add a heap of plants to break up the territories a bit.

 

[Katsplaty]

Thank you, i always use stress coat and Aquarian to dechlorinate the water. I also use filter boosters.

I’m going to send photos now... my orange fish (bully) is in most of them.
He was the one flicking.
The others were hiding so I lifted a piece of drift wood for them to come out for the photo.

 

[Katsplaty]

The last two, yellow and blue are the bullies along with the orange one.

 

[Katsplaty]

I’ve just added the decorations I bought, lots of hiding places.

 

[Katsplaty]

They’re still flicking, I’ve done a water change. I don’t know whether to do more of one or leave it for tonight. One fish I bought yesterday is really clamped. Not sure what else to do?

 

[Colin_T]

Leave it for a few days and monitor the fish.

Fish can have clamped fins and rub on things if the water quality isn't good, if there are chemicals/ medications in the water, or if they have an external protozoan infection. They don't appear to have an external protozoan infection so just stop adding chemicals and monitor them. If any start to show spots or cream/ white or grey patches, then post pictures of them. Other than that, let things settle down.

If you have concerns about diseases, you can add some salt and that will kill most external protozoan infections, gill flukes and minor bacteria and fungal infections (not that they appear to have any infections).

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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

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You can put a picture on the back of the tank to make the fish feel more secure. You can buy aquarium backings form pet shops or online, or use coloured card or even a plastic bin liner. Just tape it to the outside of the tank.

 

[Katsplaty]

Thanks very much. I will look into a background, I’m not sure about salt as I had a fish jump out of the tank when I added salt so I have been scared ever since. I’ve changed a bucket full of water today and some yesterday but, it seems like several of them have clamped fins, flicking against things, then laying on the gravel, lethargic. I can’t see any signs of any white spot etc. The bullies in the other tank seem fine, touch wood. I don’t know what else to do because when I had something similar with my orange fish months ago ‘disease away by interpet’ worked.
I really want to help them.
I’m going to continue with large water changes daily.
Any other advice would be appreciated.