L46 Zebra pleco

kiko

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So I started to keep track of Zebra pleco spawns since the beginning of January to find out how many spawns they will do in a single year.
Kind of like personal research...
Right now I'm at 10 spawns and wondering if anyone here ever kept track throughout an entire year.
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I has been a while since i was Was breeding zebras. I got a proven breeding colony of 13 in mid Apr. 2006. I got my first spawn the first week of may from the Alpha male. 2 weeks later I got the 1st spawn from the number 2 male. Two weeks after that The alpha went agains and they continued to alternate at 2 week intervals Until about thanks giving when #2 went on hiatus, The alpha spawned once in Dec. and he two went on hiatus. They did not spawn for about 3 months and then they began again going in the same every 2 week pattern for about the next 10 months when they again went on a 3+ month hiatus.

They resumed again in the same gashion. In this 3rd run I actually had a 3rd male spawn once. So, I had the Alpha on close to a free swimming spane, the #2 on wigglers and the 3rd male on eggs. I had a buyer flying to NY from Kansas city to buy 20 offsping during this time. To catch the fish n the breeder tank I had to break it down. I moved all e dads into hang one traps in their caves with their offspring. Everything wen well and I returned all 3 caves to close to the same poisitions as they came from. All seemed fine. But the next day both the eggs and the wigglers were gone but the Alphas spawn was fine and left the cave a couple of days later.

The #3 male never spawned again. Over the years I got 100s of offspring and they all went to new homes. The colony paid for iteself, then paid me back for all the money I had spent on fish and related supplies going back to Jan. 2001. They they kept paying all my hobby costs and paid for the next species I got: L450, L236 RB line, L173b from Aquarium Glaser in Germany and a small group of P. compta. I Then added a group of L173 bred from tank born Parents and then a wild caught group of L173. My last added group were the super whitle RB 236 line.

I never kept an official count but I estimate I had close to 500 zebra offsrping born in my tanks over the years. One of the advantages was that I was able to donate a share of the proceeds to Planetcatfish over the years. I also served as a moderator on zebrapleco.com which has become pretty much dormant. It was taken over by Jools of planetcatfish.com and pretty much that was toward the end of any real activity on the zebra site. It mostly moved to PC.

I have to admit that my well water is apparently well suited to the fish from the Amazon and ecpescially the Big bend of the Rio Xingu. I have been very lucky in that respect and it is my practice to tell folks that apparently my well water contains a natural fish aphrodisiac. I have had a lot of soft water fish spawn in it: danios, blue eyeyed rainbows, DD black angels, P. nicholsi, Betta imbellis, assorted plecos including bristlenose which werre my first plecos to spawn. I have had a few cory specias spawn as well- panda and sterbai.

However. I am now in my later 70s and have been downsizing for the past few years. I only have the WC L173 left in plecos. But I have been adding a few corys- Hoplisomas oiapoquense, cw111, and panda, an assortment of Osteogastesr aenea anb black schutzei (I lost them not to long ago and have only 1 lone survivor). The cory are a lot less work as they can go into smmaller tanks etc. I will see if I can get any of them going.

I also was involved back in 2020 in importing 324 zebras from the Bellenz family farms in Indonesia. Today I no longer have zebras, but for many years I felt understocked if I had fewer than 50 in my tanks. From the first time I saw a picture of a zebra in the Baensch Aquarium Atlas I knew I had to have them.

When I was fianlly down to my last two original zebras in the 20s and the last 2 offspring on hand, I sent them to a member on this site who agreed to provide them with a retirment home so I could close down their tank.

Alpha male on the righte and #2 on the left:
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Awesome armored cat's. I always loved Bony fish.

It's a league of their own.
 
Well I always loved these guys so when I got back to aquariums about 5/6 years ago after not having a single tank for years
I decided I would find the way to breed these guys
Did lots of research tried many many many things..killed also quite a few fish in trying stuff I've read of stuff other so called breeders swore by.
Then I started also researching these "youtubers" and their spawns and came to a simple conclusion.
---> Breeders don't make videos <---
Because I water stats kept of my tank I just started following the spawns...when did they spawn...temp etc...
But I would have crazy spawns...13 15 and my record 17 eggs but only 1 or 2 would make it as I never believed in seperating the fry.
and it was also not constant so I tried to approximate the water stats to the same as previous spawn and not even a month later eggs...
and eggs again...heck I've had the male leave the cave to go spawn in another cave.
or the female coming to spawn while there's fry still inside.
One day I came across a guy with money to blow and willing to learn.
So I thought him my ways and my mistakes as well so that he didn't have to go through the same mistakes I did in my learning.
So he built a fish room according to my system and started to breed L46, 236sw, 471 and 136c within a month after having the system setup.
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That's pretty much how I found out my way works for sure.
It was a learning experience for both of us in a way because no way I'd play around with 3k$ fish pairs
I've thought 3 people to this day and picked a 4th but he just questioned my methods...that X or Y youtuber do this or that.
I tried to explain to him that breeders don't make videos and that if you research the videos of the same people you'll find they only get what I call "lucky spawns".
as they only spawn maybe once or twice a year, and then throw ideas about barometric pressure and "cold water" changes and blablabla....
So the commucation just somewhat stopped.
I came to a conclusion at that time.
Some people only want these fish for the price tag attached to them and not to enjoy them at all.
Which is a shame because they're my favorite fish and also such nice looking fish.
 
I am basically lazy. I want to do the least work I have to in order to get a result. So, when I began spawning zebras I did almost nothing except how I laid out the tank. I also started with a proven breeding group. They pawned 2 weeks after going into the tank. Easy peezy.

However, almost all the rest of the plecos with which I worked cane in as smaller size and I had to grow them for some time. The oen exception were the WC L173 which were very close yo breeding size. It took me about a year for the first spawn.

Here are my techniques for spawning them.

1. Fish naturally want to spawn.
2. Therefore out job is not to do things which will discourage or prevent them from doing so.
3. Really wrong parameters need to be avoided.
4. Feeding a proper diet is the single most important factor we control. Live is best and the frozen and Repashy are the next best options IMO.
5. I do nothing special beyond the above initially.
6. If this fails then I will do a mini conditioning, withhold some water changes and then do a big one when a storm id rolling in.
7. If this fails then I will do a full blown dry rainy season, The dry season should take about 3 months if raising water temps and hardness. It tops out at a temp in the low 90F and TDS about double what they will be during the onset of the rainy season.
8. The rainy season is put into place in 24-36 hours doing 2 big water changes that drop the temp by 10-12F in that time. I let is settle at about 80-82 F and gradually raise to 84-86F after wards.
9. I have found, as have others, that the offspring seem to grow faster when left in the breeder tank than when moved to a grow tank.
10. I believe zebras need to obtain some needed gut bacteria from more mature fish and do so by consuming a bit of the poop from such older fish. I cannot prove this but I always move poop along with fry when starting a new grown tank. Once this pattern is put into place in a grow tank the older fish make the needed poop for the next fry going in.

There are basically 3 ways one can approach spawning depending on one's goals. My personal preference to to work with breeding groups. i am not smart enough to choose the best male and female to spawn, mother nature does that. So iwant to offer choices to the fish.

One can spawn using a reverse trio. The females need about 2 weeks to make eggs but the males need about 4 weeks from soawning to being ready to go again.

Finally, if maximum fry production is the goal then the bet way to achieve this is what Leandro Sousa does at his facility along side the Xingu. He works with pairs. Once he gets a spawn he will remove the offspring to a grow tank within two weeks. This leaves the dad withno offspring to tend. This means he is ready to go again as soon as the female is ready.

The downside to picking pairs is one may not pick the two strongest individuals the way mother nature wants it be . I am not smart enought to do this so I do not try. However, In a group setting both the malkes and the females have apecking order and it is the top of eahc that spawns with the other.

The result of the above is ghat the the number 2 or 3 female who might be able to spawn but is not given the chance may try to get into a cave if the male slips out for a bite to eat and she then eats the wigglers leaving him free to spawn abd having the higher ranked female not yet having produce more eggs.

I believe that the female pecking order insures that the more mature (larger) female should be able to make more eggs than her smaller counterparts and should be the most likely to spawn. The "alpha female wants to spawn with the strongest male. This is how nature insures the odds are highest for producing the strongest and most offspring.

One more unusual thing some have noticed is that the alpha male is often the second biggest. It may be somewhat smaller, but he is also tougher. I normally do not name my fish. But I did name the number 2 male in my colony Fatty because it was a bit bulkier than the actual alpha.

Of course the above are my opinions and that doesn't make them automatically either the best nor the only way to do things. In the end any of us who are successful are so because we have discovered what works well for us. The proof in in the spawning success. I used to assume that most spawns were 12-15 eggs and that at least 10 or more survived every spawn.

If you do not know this site, you are in for a pleasant surprise: https://www.youtube.com/@LeandroSousa_IctioXingu
I was fortunate to have met Leandro at CatCon 2022. I have also been able to talk with Hans-Georg Evers and Ingo Seidel at other CatCons and other events.
 
I agree 200% with #9-#10 but my reasoning for growing them out in the same tank is not just because they grow faster.
But also that other fish will eat the unhealthy ones.
Think of it this way...if you have 10 fish that made it and 2 or 3 of those are "mentally challenged" by putting them in a grow box you're insuring their survival
but you're growing an unhealthy fish.
Some people don't care as they only care about numbers. I for one never had a snubnose.
As for spawning I only use water changes in the spawn only for 1 reason and 1 reason only.
From the 1st day the female is trapped if she is still there after 4 days, do a water change.
I've had females be killed because of the male not letting them go literally until they're dead I tried yanking them out of there by shaking the cave...nothing.
Then one day I decided to do a water change to see if the male would let her go because of a water parameter change and voilá.
That became my little trick to have the male let the female go if stuck in there for too many days.
As for doing water changes to induce spawns when the moon is high or because there's a storm coming or because it rained 5h ago...all folclore xD
Leandro Sousa is one of them youtubers that has no idea what he's doing.
Yes he holds a PhD so he's an intelligent man no question about it.
But he had his university pay professional breeders to come setup his system for him because he couldn't spawn a single fish.
That'd be the same if I grab a hobbyist...setup his tank for him my way and he goes to make youtube videos about how to breed zebra plecos.
People will follow what this hobbyist says because he's obviously doing it.
And that's how the folclore started...
X said do a cold water change...
Y said change the water when it rains
Z said change the water after your grandma farts in the room and lowers the barometric pressure.
I can tell you in the end I killed quite a few fish trying A,B,C,D,E,F's advice.
So I started triple checking their stuff...
if they had other videos of spawns..how many? how often? 1-2 videos only? no proof? pass....
Leandro Sousa while I speak the language I couldn't care for anything he says in any of his videos to be honest.
The best advice you can take from his videos is not what he says but the system behind him and how it's setup because you know it was done by people that breed these every month xD
The problem is that for some reason he's still pointed as the to go guy for zebra plecos not sure why
If I were to suggest any youtuber at all it'd have to be Yuri from PlecoCeramics as he's the only person I've seen with a setup with some similarities to mine.
 
Based on the above post I see no point in continuing this discussion.

I have bred more zebras than you have. I have bred more other Hypancistrus from the Big Bend than you have. I have sat and talked with the worlds greatest experts on this stuff and highly doubt you have done so. Have I ever met you? I doubt it. Have I ever heard you as a featured speaker at any of the All Aquarium Catfish Conventions? Can you point me to your published papers on this subject. Can you tell what your relevant PhD is in? Were you ever active on or a moderators on Zebrapleco.com? I was.

The fact that you have no real clue about Lendro tells me you have no clue about the topic at hand.

In Apr. 2006 prior to obtaining my spawning group I started a thread on Fishaholics.org entitled the Zebra Pleco Saga. This was the site of Barbie Fiorentino an acknowledged expert on this subject. She arranged for me to be able to get my zebra colony and she mentored me through the early years. She is still an in demand speaker on pleos etc. at major fish events around the world. Where have you given such presentations? Her site no longer exists but you can find it via the Wayback machine. My thread ran for many years and had well over 50,000 views. ALl those people must have been nuts to read that thread i guess.

Barbie had her own LFS and home breeding operation. An accident caused her store stock to be wiped out and she lost a lot of the fish. She turned to me to supply her with more zebras. I also sent her a group of 6 mature F! L173 at no charge as a thank you for all she did for me.

As for snubbers do you have any idea what causes this? It was a long debated subject for many years. Out of my 500+ offspring I had 3 maybe 4 snubbers. I sent them to Barbie as she was conducting research by growing them out and breeding them to determine if the cause might be genetic. In the end the pros, including the scientists and people in the know realized what the cause of snubbing was. It is caused when the egg shell is oo hard and the the wiggler inside gets a snub nose from have to press super hard to break out of the shell. If you eventually get enough fry you are likely to get a snubber or two. it is not common. Sine my number was 3 or 4 out of 500+.

But you are the expert. I have only worked with about a dozen species and spawned well over a 1,000 Hypancistrus in captivity. I have found myself being quoted on foreign forums where I had to translate the body text as all I could read was my screen name. But according to you I must not know anything.

I see no point in my reading anything more you have to say on this topic. I would also suggest to anybody reading this thread that they can research my experience etc. in a simple way. Do a Google search for "twotankamin + zebra pleco" When you get to the bottom of the last page tell Google to redo the search with the omitted results included. I have no Youtube page and I have no web site. People find me to buy my fish. I wonder why? ;)

I do not normally like to toot my own horn re my experience and knowledge about breeding the Big Bend B&W Hypans. I have only been doing this for close to 20 years. But I consider you have insulted me here and I am responding to this.

As for Leandro I leave readers with this He is considered to be one of the worlds most informed experts about these fish and where they live etc. But I am sure kiko will be able counter with all of his vids, papers and presentations.
"Ignorance is bliss" is famously attributed to the 18th-century poet Thomas Gray. He wrote it in his poem "Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College," published in 1742, with the full line being, "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise." according to NPR.

How are the populations of the ZEBRA PLECO in nature in 2022????



How we keep our plecos in the lab!​



Hypancistrus zebra in Nature!​



Ex-situ conservation project for the zebra pleco


Hypancistrus zebra in Nature!​



See next post

edited for typos and spelling
 
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Natural habitat and biotope aquarium of Hypancistrus zebra (l46)​



Conservation of Hypancistrus zebra and the Volta Grande do Xingu​



Who discovered the ZEBRA PLECO????

 
We've had this discussion before about Leandro...you posting a bunch of videos doesn't make him better than anybody else.
ask someone to translate this part for you ---> <---
He doesn't hide it and he actually says in multiple videos how he had help and people setup his systems, teach him how to make caves...food paste etc...
Now during my research at the time I also found out that he has 0 projects to increase numbers in their natural habitat
and that he makes his university money by breeding and selling zebra plecos to public aquarium places like "Oceanário de São Paulo" or "Aquário de São Paulo" between others.
So how is he protecting the zebrinha?!? or insuring it's survival by maybe looking for a different spot to introduce them and constantly pumping numbers until they breed and make that area theirs? --> he isn't.
So what is Leandro doing? he breeds and sells zebra plecos just like everyone and he makes videos about zebra plecos.
Can he breed them? He's following a system created by German aquarists paid for by his university that barely yields numbers.
You for some strange reason idolize a man that does nothing for this fish's survival in nature because he holds a PhD?!?
He couldn't figure how to breed zebra plecos when he literally had access to the same water they came from.
Heck he couldn't breed them even using the same water in buckets from where they came from.
I show you a breeder that has bred more fish than you, me and Leandro put together and you take it as a personal offense to you?
And then why would you compare yourself to me?
I have bred more zebra plecos in 3 tanks in the last 2 years than you in your entire lifetime.
What does that tell you? Am I doing it wrong because you have no idea how I do it?
Or should I change the water when there's a storm coming, light up a candle and hope they spawn?
You see, your ways worked for Barbie she passed that information to you and you stuck with it, and if you thought 2-3 spawns a year was great, then good for you.
Then I come along breeding 12-14x times more than you and you find it impossible and start naming names and taking offense from it?!?
Your input here of your 500ish during your 16 years or so was appreciated and will always be regarded as great specially in a time with little to no knowledge.
But times change and different people come along willing to try different things instead of just sticking to existent methods.
You're always welcome to pass by and review my future spawns throughout the year and hopefully understand that methods other than yours exist.

This is a Journal Thread. Not a how-to or some kind of a teaching thread.
So you will not see my methods posted. That's for me to know and for everyone to enjoy my little year project.
I hope you do enjoy it too knowing how much you also love these guys.
 
I've had 4 for 11 months now I need to find a few more that are not ridiculously priced

They are such a cool fish but about 30 years on from when I got my first one which I kept as an indicidual I want to breed them one day
 
I think we have to consider researchers, who work with the big picture, study habitats, try to preserve habitats and try to develop knowledge as distinct from people who buy fish and breed them in their houses.

I'm a fish breeder, and not a researcher. What I do can be of mild use to the Leandro Sousas of the fish I specialize in, but what I do is relatively unimportant in the big picture. The researchers are the serious people. Breeders are either business people or curious amateurs like me. I take what I learn in the often difficult, challenging hobby of breeding fish and carry it in my head when I go to listen to the big kids and try to see why what I find works.

I've had field researchers visit my fishroom and note how many more young fish I have than they do, but at the same time, I note the breadth and richness of the knowledge they've acquired working in nature on the much bigger picture. I'm trying to produce a lot of young fish so other fishkeepers can amuse themselves with them. Researchers are trying to understand natural history. They aren't fishbreeders, though they often breed a fish fish on the side.

Fishbreeders like me are a passing thing, though we may take ourselves seriously or record our techniques. The scientists are the big leagues of knowledge.
 

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