keeping a threatened species

[annka5]

The Wolf: In which case, no dilemma, IMO: assuming you can beleive what you're being told, then purchasing the fish does no harm. It's not depleting wild stocks of endangered animal, so, no issue...
Tokis: what are the "???" for...?
To clarify: most people who are serious about breeding endangered fish will have researched and made sure they have an appropriate set-up. I'm sure that in setting up and considering breeding them yourself, you've thought out the problems and come up with solutions.
However, if you compare that to someone who wants to keep rare Fish A and thinks along the lines of "ooh, well, i can always breed them and that will make it OK" it's fairly obvious that one is more likely to be successful and not end up with badly inbred fish than the other!!

 

[abstract]

The exporters also have a policy in place where they release a quarter of what they breed of this species (and other threatened/endangered species) back into their natural habitat.

i never knew that and i am really glad to hear of such practices (i've never thought of that idea myself)....in that case i would buy them....assuming they are not straight-out lying to you (which i dont believe they are), it would seem that you are encouraging the reintroduction of the species into the wild by buying them

 

[Inchworm]

OK I have spoken to the wholesalers and they have contacted the exporters who assured the wholesalers they are tank bred.
The exporters also have a policy in place where they release a quarter of what they breed of this species (and other threatened/endangered species) back into their natural habitat.
I have still not decided on wether I'm going to buy any or not.

Hi The-Wolf

I'm somewhat confused here. If they knew they were an endangered species, why do you think they arrived at your workplace with the name of a more common fish on them? Doesn't it seem likely that if such a fish was indeed tank bred, but very rare, it would have been advertised as such and sold at a higher price?

However, if it were my choice, I would buy them even if they were wild caught and endangered, especially if I found them mislabeled. Look at it like this. You are an experienced breeder and have successfully raised fry. The odds of your being able to breed them and keep them available to the everyday hobbyist are fairly good, even if you haven't breed this particular species before. If they are just sold to any casual buyer, this opportunity for them to continue will be almost certainly lost.

These particular fish are lost to their natural habitat and even if you buy them and don't breed them, they will never return. I think you will give them the best possible chance for survival that they will get, so I suggest you go for it!

 

[Undawada]

If a quarter of the species captive bred are released to replenish wild populations, isn't buying them encouraging more breeding and therefore more fish released back into the wild?

It sounds like a good moral case for buying cool new fishies to me!

 

[Undawada]

If they knew they were an endangered species, why do you think they arrived at your workplace with the name of a more common fish on them? Doesn't it seem likely that if such a fish was indeed tank bred, but very rare, it would have been advertised as such and sold at a higher price?

Good point, but they might only be endangered in the wild. Chances are if they can be captive bred, they are, and probably in big quantities.

Like Endler's Livebearer. They are endangered or even extinct in the wild, but common in captivity.

Just a thought.

 

[The-Wolf]

I'm somewhat confused here. If they knew they were an endangered species, why do you think they arrived at your workplace with the name of a more common fish on them?

It was the wholesalers that changed the common name, a pratice they do to make different fish seem more appealing to the retailers. As far as I know only a handful of retailers (my boss is one) actually goes there to see the fish before purchasing them, most do it on-line and therfore only have the name to go by.
The C.Adolfoi we have in the shop they call orange spot cories

 

[Inchworm]

Hi The-Wolf

It was the wholesalers that changed the common name, a pratice they do to make different fish seem more appealing to the retailers.

That's a really scary thought! If the retailers will fall for something like that, there is something really wrong with this hobby. How can anyone expect to know just what they are getting if the retailers don't even know for sure? Or don't care?

I've found species of corys for sale in chain lfs under different common names too. The explanation they gave was that they imported directly from South America and the local people who collected them gave them these names.

I think at least some of the reason they don't use the latin species names is so that they can sell "look alike" fish and fool their customers, many of whom don't know better. With corys, at least, there are many C numbered fish that look similar to named species and who can easily find their way into the marketplace along with them. If they are given interesting common names, they cannot be liable for misrepresenting a fish as something it's not.

 

[The-Wolf]

How can anyone expect to know just what they are getting if the retailers don't even know for sure? Or don't care?

I aggree totally Inchworm,
take the rummynose tetra for example.
Even though I've told my boss the ones we have are really firehead tetras, he still wants them labled as rummynoses "because people know what a rummynose is"
I've tried untill I'm blue in the face to explain "people think they know what a rummynose is, because shops mislable things"

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Good point, but they might only be endangered in the wild. Chances are if they can be captive bred, they are, and probably in big quantities.

Like Endler's Livebearer. They are endangered or even extinct in the wild, but common in captivity.

Just a thought. [/quote]
They might only be endangered in the wild but they could also be rare in captivity- there are many Endlers in captivity because they are actually reletavly easy to breed and apart from desiring better water quality than your average guppy, they breed pretty much in the same way.
Zebra plecs on the other hand are not only endangered in the wild but they are also rare in captivity, in fact from what i have gathered it is illegal to now export them from the wild but due to been difficult to breed and needing a rather complex and exact enviroment to do so, so most breeders havn't realy taken to breeding them yet on a large scale as people only figured out how to do so reletavely recently etc.
You'd have to find out how common the fish is in captivity breeding scemes to know wether they were breeding it with any success.

 

[One_Trick_Pony]

i would get them for all reason outlined above, u can do some good with them poteantilly,

 

[Undawada]

Personally I'd be proud to buy a firehead tetra.

Because most stores label Fireheads as Rummynoses, it is an uncommon (though more correct) name. This sounds like a good marketing tactic to me?

They have rummynoses everywhere, but we have fireheads here, oooooohh!

 

[The-Wolf]

OK after some considerable time fighting with my consience on this subject, I have finally brought home 8 of these stunning little fish.
having done more research into its endangered stauts,
I have discovered that they are LR/cd

LOWER RISK (LR) - A taxon is Lower Risk when it has been evaluated, does not satisfy the criteria for any of the categories Critically Endangered, Endangered or Vulnerable. Taxa included in the Lower Risk category can be separated into three subcategories:

Conservation Dependent (cd). Taxa which are the focus of a continuing taxon-specific or habitat-specific conservation programme targeted towards the taxon in question, the cessation of which would result in the taxon qualifying for one of the threatened categories above within a period of five years.

 

[Boxcar Muzzdogg]

That's a really scary thought! If the retailers will fall for something like that, there is something really wrong with this hobby. How can anyone expect to know just what they are getting if the retailers don't even know for sure? Or don't care?

Because Its not about the hobby its about the money.

The Wolf, I agree with the others. It is good that you have purchased the fish. I hope you are successful in breeding them. Maybe you can get your boss to sell the fish you breed instead of buying them from the dealer.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Tokis: what are the "???" for...?
To clarify: most people who are serious about breeding endangered fish will have researched and made sure they have an appropriate set-up. I'm sure that in setting up and considering breeding them yourself, you've thought out the problems and come up with solutions.
However, if you compare that to someone who wants to keep rare Fish A and thinks along the lines of "ooh, well, i can always breed them and that will make it OK" it's fairly obvious that one is more likely to be successful and not end up with badly inbred fish than the other!!

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Why would i want to breed the offspring with each other? I would just continue breeding the original pair and i would just buy more non related adults when i wanted new blood- who says you have to line breed/inbreed them? Also it wouldn't do very much harm at all breeding the offspring anyways of wild caught fish because they have exceptionally better genes than captivity bred fish, the main risk is when you inbred fish that are already very inbred like guppys for example.

 

[jollysue]

Sounds like you are making a good bargain to me The Wolf. Two needs are being adressed: your desire for the fishes and continuation of the species in captive breeding. Regardless of why you resolved to enter the bargain, the results are potentially positive. Your motives were not without desire for personal gain, but they are moral. You are satisfied that you are benefitting the environment, you are adding to the breeding stock. It's all good. You have no reason have confused emotions.