Our post crossed. Your water should be fine for cherry shrimp as is. You don't need to do anything. Are you seeing berried females? Or have you had any new shrimplets? If so that's a pretty good sign that all is well.Thank you Jan, that is helpful and the good news I was hoping for. I tried PH down a couple of months ago, it took 4 days to get it to 7 then 4 days later it was back at 8! I think this yo-yo effect caused the death if one of my neocardinia shrimp so I binned the PH down. I can't really get my head round the GH/KH yet but am very happy to hear it's not extreme. I haven't used the other additives but will look them up. Thank you for the help and time
Thank you Jan, that is helpful and the good news I was hoping for. I tried PH down a couple of months ago, it took 4 days to get it to 7 then 4 days later it was back at 8! I think this yo-yo effect caused the death if one of my neocardinia shrimp so I binned the PH down. I can't really get my head round the GH/KH yet but am very happy to hear it's not extreme. I haven't used the other additives but will look them up. Thank you for the help and time
I have the APi liquid test kit which does the high PH. I borrowed my daughter's APi test strip for GH and KH, this is 120 ppm and 40ppm. I test every third day before any water change, in the evening. I have neon tetra which is why I tried to reduce the PH before.
Tap water is PH 8.0. My daughter's betta tank (same water) seems to have a PH of 7.0 but that might just be because she uses test strips instead of liquid? (she's 13 so does some maintenance herself but I don't give her chemicals).
Thank you for the advise and information
Thank you for all the helpful information Byron.This is exactly why you must never use pH adjusting chemicals in an aquarium. The fluctuating pH is very hard on fish, and weakens them and this can be permanent leading to troubles down the road.
The pH is tied to other factors such as the GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity), CO2 (dissolved carbon dioxide in the water) to name a few. These all impact the pH. The pH down and similar chemicals do nothing with respect to these other factors, and this is why the pH lowered initially but went right back up. The GH, and especially the buffering capability of the KH, will prevent adjustments to the pH, at least up to the point where you use so much chemical it literally drowns the chemistry and the pH can then crash. This will almost inevitably result in dead fish.
The only way to safely adjust pH is by adjusting the GH and KH first, and the pH will follow suit. Your GH at 120 ppm (I am assuming this is ppm, or mg/l which is identical) equates to 6.7 dGH. The hobby uses either ppm (parts per million, which is the same value as mg/l) or dGH so I like to include both. This is not extreme at all, somewhere around moderately hard but at thee low end. The KH at 40 ppm will buffer the pH, as you've seen and I explained above. If you were to dilute the source water with "pure" water it would decrease the GH/KH and the pH might lower as a result. Until you do these changes it is difficult to predict the result because of all the factors involved. Which is one big reason so many of us caution members not to try. Water chemistry is indeed complex, and any change in one factor is likely to have a chain reaction that might be completely opposite to the intention.
So to your initial question, no this is not hard alkaline water. It is moderate, perhaps moderately hard at the low end. The pH is basic--what used to be termed alkaline but that term is no longer used for pH as it has a different scientific meaning relating to the carbonate hardness. There may be other factors keeping the pH high but you/we would need to look into other additives the water authority may be using and the specifics of your aquarium. For example, if you have calcareous rock or a substrate composed of calcareous substances (limestone, coral, shells, aragonite, etc) this will dissolve slowly, increasing the pH faster than the GH/KH.
Ok, thank you. I will post the tap water test after 24 hours. My tank has no rock, it has biorb media (inertThere is something here that you /we need to sort out. First thing is, what is the pH of the tap water on its own? You say it is 8, and if it remains 8 in your aquarium but lowers to 7 in your daughters' aquarium, there is something we are not seeing.
Tap water. First, let a glass of tap water sit for 24 hours and then test the pH. This will out-gas the CO2 (if any). Second, do you know if the water authority are adding any substance to the water (not thinking of chlorine)? Some do this to increase the pH (regardless of GH and KH) but it is usually temporary.
Your aquarium, is there any possibly calcareous rock in this tank, or is the substrate calcareous?
There is something here that you /we need to sort out. First thing is, what is the pH of the tap water on its own? You say it is 8, and if it remains 8 in your aquarium but lowers to 7 in your daughters' aquarium, there is something we are not seeing.
Tap water. First, let a glass of tap water sit for 24 hours and then test the pH. This will out-gas the CO2 (if any). Second, do you know if the water authority are adding any substance to the water (not thinking of chlorine)? Some do this to increase the pH (regardless of GH and KH) but it is usually temporary.
Your aquarium, is there any possibly calcareous rock in this tank, or is the substrate calcareous?
So I had a slight change in the result this time, tap water sat for 24 hours PH 7.6.There is something here that you /we need to sort out. First thing is, what is the pH of the tap water on its own? You say it is 8, and if it remains 8 in your aquarium but lowers to 7 in your daughters' aquarium, there is something we are not seeing.
Tap water. First, let a glass of tap water sit for 24 hours and then test the pH. This will out-gas the CO2 (if any). Second, do you know if the water authority are adding any substance to the water (not thinking of chlorine)? Some do this to increase the pH (regardless of GH and KH) but it is usually temporary.
Your aquarium, is there any possibly calcareous rock in this tank, or is the substrate calcareous?
PH 7.58.
Hardness level is slightly hard with Hardness Clark 9.54, Hardness German 7.63, Hardness French 13.63- very confused with all these numbers!
Nitrate 23.34mg/l
Thank you for the explanation and info.These are the figures of most importance. Ammonia and nitrite are so low we could never detect them with our test kits.
Your pH in tap water that's been allowed to sit is just about the same as the water company's figure.
Hardness has several units as you can see. The ones used in fish keeping are German degrees, which you'll see written as dGH, dH or just degrees, and ppm, which is also called mg/l. You water company gives German degrees, so your dH is the same at 7.63. This converts to 136.6 ppm (there is a converter in the calculator section of How To Tips)
This is slightly harder than your test strips show, but as there is a big difference between values for the colours on the strip they are not terribly accurate.
Your tap water nitrate as slightly above the maximum level needed for fish (that's 20 ppm). Live plants in the tank will help with that.
UK water companies rarely give KH (which they call alkalinity) so we can only go by the result on the strips. 40 ppm converts to 2.2 degrees, which is quite low. With a KH this low I would expect your pH in the tank to fall slightly, as your daughter's tank does. This is because nitrate and organic products that build up in the tank are acidic. The question remains - why is your tank pH higher than your tap water pH after it has stood?
We know you have no rocks in your tank, but do you have any coral or even shells?
Thank you for the explanation and info.
No, no corals or shells.
I will keep adding more plants for the nitrate, Thank you.
I've ordered some catappa leaves but am not holding out much hope that it will change the ph.