Is It The Fish Store Clerk's Responsibility?

[Madam Macaw]

I've been reading "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums", and for the most part it's a decent book. I just read the section about choosing fish, and the author wrote about a "horror story" of a woman who went into a pet shop and chose 30 fish, including an angelfish, a Jack Dempsey, neon tetras, a polka dot catfish, and a green terror. Turns out she was putting them all together in a 10 gallon tank, so you can guess what happened. The author placed the blame squarely on the pet store clerk, for catching her the fish without asking her any questions about her tank. Being a fish store employee myself, I found that interesting. Of course it's in a shop's best interest to make sure their customers are successful in the hobby, and this includes making sure their new fish will be suitable for their tank... but isn't it ultimately the responsibility of the customer to do this, either by doing research before they walk in or by asking questions once they're in the store? What do you guys think?

Some people just don't think about it like that. I went in and bought some fish for my son's first 10-gallon (mine first too). The clerk seemed very knowledgable and helped us pick fish for a community tank. My only gripe was that he also sold us a common pleco for it - which can get up to 24". I am glad I found this forum and another one or I would have never known and stunted his growth.

Bottom line, yes - the customer should research before coming in, but at the same time the clerks there should be able to best direct the customer and correct them too when it comes to stocking their tanks. If they don't have the experience, are new, whatever - they should direct them to someone who does know.

Now, this raises a question I was going to post, but since you work in a stores - I'd like to ask you.

I found a nice little aquarium store while going to a birthday party. The store had some really nice specimens that I haven't seen at other stores. But, in a few tanks there were some dead floating fish - it was late in the evening right before they closed. My husband says that any store will have some fish that die and since it was late - they just hadn't gotten to them yet. What is an acceptable amount of floating fish before you will think that the store is not one you should be buying fish at?

 

[l.michelle]

For me, if you tell the people that work at the store one is dead, or injured, if they do nothing, then it is unacceptable, and I will probably not shop there.

If they go and take care of it, then that's good. Obviously fish die, get sick and whatnot, but I really don't like seeing other fish attacking the dead fish etc.

 

[Ace Of Spades]

I've been reading "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freshwater Aquariums", and for the most part it's a decent book. I just read the section about choosing fish, and the author wrote about a "horror story" of a woman who went into a pet shop and chose 30 fish, including an angelfish, a Jack Dempsey, neon tetras, a polka dot catfish, and a green terror. Turns out she was putting them all together in a 10 gallon tank, so you can guess what happened. The author placed the blame squarely on the pet store clerk, for catching her the fish without asking her any questions about her tank. Being a fish store employee myself, I found that interesting. Of course it's in a shop's best interest to make sure their customers are successful in the hobby, and this includes making sure their new fish will be suitable for their tank... but isn't it ultimately the responsibility of the customer to do this, either by doing research before they walk in or by asking questions once they're in the store? What do you guys think?

Some people just don't think about it like that. I went in and bought some fish for my son's first 10-gallon (mine first too). The clerk seemed very knowledgable and helped us pick fish for a community tank. My only gripe was that he also sold us a common pleco for it - which can get up to 24". I am glad I found this forum and another one or I would have never known and stunted his growth.

Bottom line, yes - the customer should research before coming in, but at the same time the clerks there should be able to best direct the customer and correct them too when it comes to stocking their
tanks. If they don't have the experience, are new, whatever - they should direct them to someone who does know.

Now, this raises a question I was going to post, but since you work in a stores - I'd like to ask you.

I found a nice little aquarium store while going to a birthday party. The store had some really nice specimens that I haven't seen at other stores. But, in a few tanks there were some dead floating fish - it was late in the evening right before they closed. My husband says that any store will have some fish that die and since it was late - they just hadn't gotten to them yet. What is an acceptable amount of floating fish before you will think that the store is not one you should be buying fish at?

Id Say four or five depending on the size of the shop, as your bound to get the ones that dont make it from the stress of delivery, Dead fish aint really that big a deal compared to diseased fish gettin sold, (my opinion anyway) and obvioulsy its worse if the fish has been left in there for a while, if a fish dies and is immediatly removed I would rate the shop more then if they just left it there..

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Re the dead fish, there’s no set number really because of the considerable number of factors affecting it, however here’s what I do to check a store out

1 – Check the tank that the dead fish is in, is it marked up as quarantine or not for sale, in some shops this is explicit, in others it isn’t, a lfs I frequent has plastic covers to the tanks which they can write on and wipe off in marker pens, if there’s a ‘q’ in the corner I know the tank is in quarantine so is either new arrivals or being medicated, in which case it’s fairly likely that there will be deaths from time to time

2 – Look at the overall health of the fish in the tank, do any others look ill? If there’s just a 1 off and a fish dies it’s fairly likely this won’t be picked up upon instantly, if there’s a tank for of fish will an obvious illness this should have been spotted as it developed

3 – Consider the time of day and what day it is, are all the employee’s serving someone, are you having to wait to get served? If it’s Saturday and they’re busy as hell then of course it will take them longer to spot fish than if it’s a Tuesday mid afternoon and there’s only 1 person in the store browsing.

3 – Point out a dead fish to one of the employee’s, don’t be accusatory or anything like that just say ‘by the way you’ve a dead xxx in the tank over there’ and see how they respond. If they immediately remove it, and inspect it when they take it out of the tank then they’ve probably just not spotted it yet, and you will inevitably get some deaths in even the best stores. They should preferably immediately mark the tank up as quarantine or not for sale at least until they get a chance to inspect the tank’s overall health. If they don’t do any of the above then you can see it’s dodgy

4 – Lastly go back and visit the store on a couple of occasions, inevitably every shop will have the odd bad day, if you continually see lots of dead fish and poor practice then steer clear, if the next 2/3 times you go in and it’s fine then you can be fairly safe in the knowledge that it was just a bad day for them.

 

[FcF]

99.99% buyer's responsibility.

 

[shelaghfishface]

well its not like theres any excuses for bringing home a whale to live in a 10 gallon tank, even if he is 2inches long and cute at the time.
on several occassions i have been into my lfs and liked the look of something,but not bought it there and then as i needed to know more about it,he will put a label on the tank for 1 day max to say one has been reserved,in which time i go back and get it or i just call and say i have changed my mind,i dont suppose he likes losing the sale, but he wouldnt like me ranting at him for the "whale" outgrowing my house either,and he always asks what i have in the tanks,and how things are going( went in before i started and got tonnes of advice and said hi im shelagh..blah blah--which incidently now gets me a rounded down discount!! hehe)

but the point is there is so much information out there,oh and in here of course...i got my 4 fish rating on the left from asking questions and lots of them,i have made mistakes,some massive ones,but i have also learned how not to make them again

im definatly with it being the customers job to do the research first

(( sorry i have had no-one to talk to all day lol))

 

[Bubblenester]

Wow, that was a lot of responses! It seems like the general consensus is that it's up to both the customer and the pet store, but that the pet store mainly has a responsibility to the fish themselves rather than the ignorant customer. Personally I'm really torn... if someone isn't going to bother to do any research or ask any questions, I feel like they deserve anything bad that happens to their fish or their tank. On the other hand, I do care about fish and I'd like to prevent their death or mistreatment.

I'm always amazed at how offended some people get when I ask them about their tank before catching them a fish (and I really don't feel like I do it in a condescending way, but who knows). If you really have been keeping fish since before I was born, surely you know how many people out there are total idiots or are just new to the hobby and don't know what they're doing!

I found a nice little aquarium store while going to a birthday party. The store had some really nice specimens that I haven't seen at other stores. But, in a few tanks there were some dead floating fish - it was late in the evening right before they closed. My husband says that any store will have some fish that die and since it was late - they just hadn't gotten to them yet. What is an acceptable amount of floating fish before you will think that the store is not one you should be buying fish at?

I feel like the store that I work at takes good care of the fish. We have a total of 135 aquariums, we typically find 5-10 dead fish in a day, and they're typically spread throughout all different aquariums with multiple deaths only in the tanks of very sensitive species. If there are more than 10 deaths or many of them are from the same aquarium, it's almost always because we got in a bad shipment of something and they all died on us. We collect the floaters in the morning and throughout the day so it's very rare to come in our store and see more than maybe one dead fish that we've missed, but it's possible that this store collects them at night and was too busy throughout the day to do much.

Miss Wiggle gave great advice on this and I would agree with all of it.

 

[Ace Of Spades]

I feel like they deserve anything bad that happens to their fish or their tank. On the other hand, I do care about fish and I'd like to prevent their death or mistreatment.

but its not the customer that is going to suffer, its the fish, nothing bad will happen to the owner they will go out and just buy a replacement without learning anything in most cases and just blame it on the lfs. If they get angry or rude to you for asking them a few question for the well being of the fish, I would refuse to serve them and ask someone else to serve them or tell them to go away and do some research before you buy this fish ...

Its my opinion anyway, and opinions will always vary

 

[andywg]

How many of us go to a car dealer for unbiased advice on what car we need/should buy for our circumstances? How many of us trust an insurance salesperson to truly give us the ideal product, or a double glazing saelsperson to give impartial advice on what best suits our needs and budget?

Very few I would guess.

Why then do we expect such altruistic greatness from those that sell our fish? If you really want the staff in an lfs to provide full and detailed information you should be prepared to pay a lot more for your fish to actually pay a decent wage so that people with a decent knowledge can make a living from working in a store.

There's a lot of Caveat emptor in this IMO.

 

[Siamese Fighting]

I just think the argument stands to reason, why have incompetent people sell fish? That's the reason many shops lose their licence. If the person selling them has little or no knowledge about them, the chances are, they can't have been looked after properly.

 

[raptorrex]

How many of us go to a car dealer for unbiased advice on what car we need/should buy for our circumstances? How many of us trust an insurance salesperson to truly give us the ideal product, or a double glazing saelsperson to give impartial advice on what best suits our needs and budget?

Very few I would guess.

Why then do we expect such altruistic greatness from those that sell our fish? If you really want the staff in an lfs to provide full and detailed information you should be prepared to pay a lot more for your fish to actually pay a decent wage so that people with a decent knowledge can make a living from working in a store.

There's a lot of Caveat emptor in this IMO.

all these are, manufactured or inanimate objects, and i fully agree with the comments on those. but Fish are live animals, therefore does the seller not have more responsibility's because of that? i know the buyer does. even if you look at the manufactured/inanimate item,. if a retailer sells you an item, assuming you have given all the information needed, lol and that info is correct, and this item is incorrect or incompatible, or worse still unsafe, with the equipment you outlined. is that not the responsibility of the seller? and why then should this rule not apply to sellers of live stock?

 

[Dorkhedeos]

I work at my lfs and I think its the customers responsibility to either do research themselves or take my advice. I never refuse the sale though even if I know they arent capable of taking care of the fish.

If a salesperson at a bike shop says, "Hey, I am not selling you this motorcycle to you because you have a kid" I guarantee you that the salesperson would get fired. Who am I to make decisions for people I dont even know? All I can do is give them advice and show them another fish they might like that is more suitable, but if they like that fish, I am not going to stop them from buying it.

Many of you do not realize that if you are a salesperson and you refuse sales, you either get in trouble, or fired. If you own the shop, you can do whatever you want and refuse as many sales as you want, but you arent going to be in business for long if you do that. However, if you work for someone else you cant mess around with their stuff or refer them to different shops unless you have the owner's permission.

 

[Siamese Fighting]

Being a fish salesman is in no way the same as being a car salesman or anything of the sort. It's hardly commission based.
Fish shops make more money from tanks/food/accessories than fish.
I have been "refused" a sale of a fish, but they happily direct me towards one that would be more suitable.

 

[raptorrex]

I work at my lfs and I think its the customers responsibility to either do research themselves or take my advice. I never refuse the sale though even if I know they arent capable of taking care of the fish.

If a salesperson at a bike shop says, "Hey, I am not selling you this motorcycle to you because you have a kid" I guarantee you that the salesperson would get fired. Who am I to make decisions for people I dont even know? All I can do is give them advice and show them another fish they might like that is more suitable, but if they like that fish, I am not going to stop them from buying it.

Many of you do not realize that if you are a salesperson and you refuse sales, you either get in trouble, or fired. If you own the shop, you can do whatever you want and refuse as many sales as you want, but you arent going to be in business for long if you do that. However, if you work for someone else you cant mess around with their stuff or refer them to different shops unless you have the owner's permission.

i mean no offence here. but if this is the attitude of staff in many LFS, it is little wonder they have such a, it would seem from this deservedly, bad reputation. what a shoddy and despicable attitude. from my own point of view, i hope your employer goes under and quickly, as he obviously is not the right person to be running a shop selling live animals. with that attitude i would not have him selling news papers.

i spent a large portion of my working live at, what was then, the largest photographic retailer in the word. i never once, knowingly, sold an item that was, incorrect or incompatible with the customers equipment, nor would i allow any of my staff to do so. indeed we were specifically warned against doing so. it did me little harm, as i went from junior sales through asst manager and manager and finally to the head office. during this time i refused many sales, but a little thought often turned a refusal into a sale, all that was needed was to point the customer in the right direction.

 

[Dorkhedeos]

Fish shops make more money from tanks/food/accessories than fish.

I think you have it mixed up, any reliable source you will pull up will be against that statement . Tanks/food/accessories are where shops make the least money. I am not saying they dont make a profit, im just saying you make a lot more selling fish than equipment If you have ever seen the store list you will see why

I shouldnt even be using an examples from an actual list, but 2 shouldnt hurt

10 gallon tank wholesale is $10.39 and retails at $10.99
Cardinal tetra 24c retails at 1.99


If you take a look at that, you will see that selling a 1.99 product actually makes more than selling a 10 gallon tank. Another thing that you have to factor in is the quantity sold. People dont come into a shop and buy 3 bags of food and 2 fish tanks, but it is common for people to buy 5 fish at a time. Shops pretty much sell equipment so you buy fish from them.

Lets say a customer wants some cardinals and some corys. Lets say he wants 8 cardinals, and 3 corys(assume wholesale 50c retail 4). He needs a 10g tank and a 10g filter(assume 5 wholesale 15 retail which is unusually low for wholesale equipment) They make about $21.50 on fish and about $10.60 on a tank and filter. If you use this example, then you will see that the profit on fish is a lot higher than profit on goods.

People usually come to a fish shop to buy fish too. I havent seen anybody just come in to buy food without looking at the fish. I believe the goods are in the shop to help with the sales of fish. If you compare it to a paint ball store, it is somewhat similar. Say the tanks are the guns and the paint balls are the fish. People buy 1 gun, and a whole lot of paintballs off of you. Its not the other way around.