Is Fishkeeping Harder Work Now That It Was 10 Or 20 Years Ago?

[Ami]

Just been saying Hi to Charlie D (a lurker who's decided to become a newbie instead ) and he mentioned that he was sure fishkeeping was much more work than when his dad used to do it.

I remember my mum keeping goldfish in a small green terrarium (??!!) cos she didn't want to have to buy a fish tank, using only an air stone, cleaning them out only once the water got so filthy you couldn't see anything in the bowl and then using freezing cold water straight from the tap with no conditioner! Needless to say, fish did die but not nearly as much as you would expect.

I was trying to work out if it was harder, or if we just did more than our parents ever do, and wondered what everyone else thought.

I reckon that the following all impact:

• Fish are weaker these days, probably due to inbreeding (maybe we could introduce some fishy law about incest?)
• Water companies chuck more crap into the water to make it 'safe' for us humans, but not for our fishy friends
• It was a commonly held belief that fish had 3 second memories so didn't ever get unhappy or bored ('oooh, look at that nice rock....' 'oooh, look at that nice rock...') but all of us who've kept fish know that some get very bored indeed
• People didn't think fish could feel pain (how could dropsy not be painful??) - now we know better!
• In general, people weren't aware of the nitrogen cycle or of the toxins that could build up in a fish tank what did they think happened to all the fishy waste??)
• We didn't have such a wealth of products (or suppliers and advertisements!) for treating pretty much everything that could go wrong

Basically, I think it is harder but only because we're more aware than we ever were before

However, because of a lack of general knowledge regarding fishy requirements and health, certain members of the older generation (my grandparents who are now keeping 2 goldfish in a 3g, no filter, no conditioner [aarghhhh!!!] and won't listen to any advice - 'gran, you know that those fish are really to big for that tank and that you should get a filter for them...?' 'They seem to have plenty of room.....and are you happy living so far away from home love? We really do miss you, you know...') are still keeping fish in conditions that would horrify most of us here.


Ami

Apologies, but my light-hearted post seems to have an agenda after all

 

[chrismr]

It probably is no more difficult than it was, say, 20 years ago... back then, if your fish got sich it was unlikely you had something to treat it. If your water was toxic to fish it would kill them cause you had nothing to condition it with.

However, I do believe we (as consumers) are fed a whole load of crap. Eg, how many fish foods contain the same or similar contents, but cost different amounts as one is marketed as being "specialist food".

Many of us take a lot for granted in certain hobbies. Somebody says "x is bad because...", and most tend to believe without question.

When was the last time somebody used water without a conditioner? Have you tried it? Are you likely to try it? Have you tested your local water supply personally to determine if it contains any of the fish killing additives? How do we know the threat to fish is not blown all out of proportion (probably by large companies looking to make money).

And before you moan, yes I am sure the water would be harmful, and yes I do use conditioners. I am just tring to get a point across that most of us just take what we are told at face value.

My partner will add cycle products, black water products, as well as water conditioners when doing a water change. I will only use the conditioner (and a dilute acid solution ot lower ph of water)

I do not think it is more difficult, but most difinitely it has the potential to be a lot more confusing than it ws some time ago due to the huge range of products available.

You will often find it will not have anything to do with generation. You will find kids around today who will keep fish in similar conditions to your grandparents. Its more a question of responsible ot irresponsible pet keeping.

 

[juliehainsworth]

I think its harder than what it seemed ten years ago then again I wasnt really involved in the first set up!

I'll admit that I have NEVER used water conditioners the only chemicals I put in my tank are ich treatment when they have had it (It's the only thing I've ever had in tank)! Lately I've started to leave bottles of water to stand for 24 hours before adding it to my tank but previously I just put it straight in from the tap have been doing it for months! I have only had one fish die in my tank but other than that all fish are fine and healthy!

 

[dwarfgourami]

I'm finding it a lot easier than when I first kept fish 30 years ago. Lots more information around, so easy to access. Also more fun, because more is known about the natural life, habitat, behaviour of fish. They have become real to me in a way they never did before.

Of course, there was ich medicine 30 years ago, of course there was dechlorinator (it's not THAT long ago, Chris, the wheel HAD been invented).

But there wasn't the wealth of information, there wasn't the internet. You had to go to books and if you lived somewhere small with few shops, there would be a very limited selection of books, some of which might already be out of date. You couldn't call up a fish profile, a diagnosis or advice from more experienced hobbyists at the touch of a button. New knowledge took longer to spread. Some fishkeepers might be experimenting with keeping something new or breeding in a new way, but most people wouldn't know about it.

No doubt there were people around who understood about better fishkeeping than I did, but there was no means I could get in touch with those people. So my fish died. Not all, not all the time, but more than they should have done. And I felt much more helpless when things went wrong. Much better this time round!

 

[chrismr]

Of course, there was ich medicine 30 years ago, of course there was dechlorinator (it's not THAT long ago, Chris, the wheel HAD been invented).

Who would have thought....

 

[guppymonkey]

I think fishkeeping is a LOT easier now than it was 10 years ago and amazingly easy compared to 30 years ago. With the wealth of information that people can get easily off the internet the hobby has really become more manageable. No longer can anyone believeably give the excuse that their fish "just died". Its easier to find out how to get a tank up and running, even if you are lazy and don't want to buy a basic book.

There are some things that are more confusing than in the past though. With the internet you can find a lot of information but a lot of it is wrong or just from personal experience which doesn't work all or even most of the time. Some people will say that they never treat their water and that is okay not to because it works for them but they might not have water that is treated with chlorine or chloramine. If someone takes that advice they could end up with dead fish. On the internet you have to quadruple check all your sources because everyone says something different and most of them are wrong.

 

[Soaup]

I think fishkeeping is a LOT easier now than it was 10 years ago and amazingly easy compared to 30 years ago. With the wealth of information that people can get easily off the internet the hobby has really become more manageable. No longer can anyone believeably give the excuse that their fish "just died". Its easier to find out how to get a tank up and running, even if you are lazy and don't want to buy a basic book.

There are some things that are more confusing than in the past though. With the internet you can find a lot of information but a lot of it is wrong or just from personal experience which doesn't work all or even most of the time. Some people will say that they never treat their water and that is okay not to because it works for them but they might not have water that is treated with chlorine or chloramine. If someone takes that advice they could end up with dead fish. On the internet you have to quadruple check all your sources because everyone says something different and most of them are wrong.

Couldnt agree anymore.. I completely agree.. The internet is an amazing source of information.

 

[Wanda hornsey]

I just wish there was some way I could make up for the way i kept our gold fish when we were kids... the only way I guess it to treat my new ones with the respect and care they deserve and encourage others to do the same

 

[Ami]

Oh boy, lots of replies and where to start - the top I guess! Hope you'll all forgive me for para-phrasing your replies, but I'd be here forever otherwise!

I do believe we (as consumers) are fed a whole load of crap... many fish foods contain...similar contents...but...one is marketed as being "specialist food".
When was the last time somebody used water without a conditioner? Have you tried it? Are you likely to try it? Have you tested your local water supply personally to determine if it contains any of the fish killing additives? How do we know the threat to fish is not blown all out of proportion (probably by large companies looking to make money).
You will often find it will not have anything to do with generation. You will find kids around today who will keep fish in similar conditions to your grandparents. Its more a question of responsible ot irresponsible pet keeping.

Chris - I agree we are fed quite a lot of crap by companies out there trying to make money. The number of treatments out there for various fishy illnesses and diseases, water treatments, pH Up, pH Down, different foodstuffs, different filter types and media etc etc all add up to a whole lot of confusing information - particularly if you're new to the hobby and / or are trying to use lights or CO2 for the first time!

Do you buy any of the specialist foods available, or even a brand name, or do you buy your fish food by the kilo from a local market? I did that once in the past and bought some algae pellets that the fish seemed to hate and then they hung around my cabinet for a couple of years before I finally chucked them out!

I do use a water conditioner, at the moment it's a Nutrafin one, but that's only because it's what the pet supply store close to work sells (although I quite like the basic design on the bottle and the value for money!). I did request regular water reports from my local company and in fact have chased them on numerous occassions, but they seem to think I'm trying to catch them out with something, which makes me think that they do have something to hide (paranoid, me? I wouldn't need to be if people didn't keep hiding things from me!)

Do you get water reports or do you just take it for granted to that there is something in the water your fish won't take kindly too?

However, I think that the majority of companies in the South of England where I live do use either Chlorine or Chloramine and I'd rather not take the risk.

Anyone who is interested in their tap water should check out this leaflet provided by the Drinking Water Inspectorate: Chlorine, Smell, Taste - there is are links to further information from this site.

Regarding my comments about the older generation and fishkeeping, I agree that it is not necessarily a generation issue so to speak, but rather one of lack of knowledge. Although kids probably have even more of an excuse for bad fishkeeping than older generations, as they don't always have the ability to think of the consequences of their actions (or lack of actions normally!). However, the only way this will change is if people within the hobby make an effort to change things.

I'll admit that I have NEVER used water conditioners the only chemicals I put in my tank are ich treatment when they have had it .....Lately I've started to leave bottles of water to stand for 24 hours .....but previously I just put it straight in from the tap..... I have only had one fish die in my tank but other than that all fish are fine and healthy!

You're a brave girl Natsuko! Or very lucky? It could be that you actually have quite good water in Leeds that's naturally filtered and I'd be quite interested to know if that's the reason for your success!

I'm too scared to take the risk, but then again I was using ammo-lock for a while but seem to have managed a mini-cycle, although it's supposed to allow the ammonia to still be used by the bacteria. Not best pleased, so I've switched back to a dechlorinator only.

 

[ccg]

I personally think that fish keeping is easier then ever. Hardware has improved lots of the years along with lots of different medications/conditionsers.

 

[Ami]

I'm finding it a lot easier than when I first kept fish 30 years ago. Lots more information around, so easy to access. Also more fun, because more is known about the natural life, habitat, behaviour of fish. They have become real to me in a way they never did before.

No doubt there were people around who understood about better fishkeeping than I did, but there was no means I could get in touch with those people. So my fish died. Not all, not all the time, but more than they should have done. And I felt much more helpless when things went wrong. Much better this time round!

Hi DG, I agree about there being more info and it being so much more readily available! Although I love the internet (the best invention ever...? Well, that and TV...microwaves...the jet engine....) I do prefer actually reading a fishy book.

Unfortunately, they keep lying to me and then I come here asking questions (about pygmy dwarf puffers from S. America that shoal and are safe to keep with tetras for example ) ) and it gives everyone a good laugh.

Glad things are going better for you this time round. How did you find out what you were doing wrong? Did you buy a book or was it the internet that saved your fish?

I used to feel very helpless when I lost fish and would get quite upset because I never understood what was wrong. The water was sparkling clean, I fed them lots....pity no-one every told me about cycling, or overfeeding!

I also wish that the first time I bought fish, they'd stopped me from buying a 3g tank and then selling me 10xdanios, 10xblack widow tetras, 10xwhite tip tetras, 10xred eye tetras and 10xplaties!! Not surprisingly, I lost all the platies within the first week, but the other fish managed to survive until I upgraded to a 100l tank. They were probably loving the space until my husband then bought 2 small cute catfish to share with them - both of which were common plecs!

And they say that ignorance is bliss - not if you're a fish.

I think fishkeeping is a LOT easier now than it was 10 years ago...There are some things that are more confusing than in the past though.... With the internet you can find a lot of information but a lot of it is wrong or just from personal experience which doesn't work all or even most of the time.....If someone takes that advice they could end up with dead fish. On the internet you have to quadruple check all your sources because everyone says something different and most of them are wrong.

That is so true GuppyMonkey! The number of times I've been told different things myself, or felt sorry for newbies who are just getting increasingly confused.

The number of fish per tank rule is a prime example. Remember William everyone? He asked how many fish he could keep in a small tank with his feeder goldfish, but instead of one person giving him a straight answer we all jumped in and started talking about different fish scenarios, how many of these type of fish you could have an how many of another. He just got more confused and that caused soooo many issues. Didn't help when he could see our own stocking lists and see that, going with what we were telling him, some of us were way overstocked.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with any of the things he said or wanter to do, but all it would have taken was for us to step back for a minute and try to see things from his side so that we could give him a proper answer and then maybe he would have gone on to be an excellent fishkeeper. Who knows.

Maybe it would help if, when people disagreed with what another had posted, that they PMd that person or posted to ask why they held that particular view? Once you've got an answer, you could decide whether or not you need to contradict them. This would of course take the fun out of things, so is probably best left for when we have a william on our hands!

 

[Ami]

I just wish there was some way I could make up for the way i kept our gold fish when we were kids... the only way I guess it to treat my new ones with the respect and care they deserve and encourage others to do the same

Wanda, don't beat yourself up about it. People do need to take responsibility and find information for themselves, but this was not as easy even a few years and you, like many of us, would have relied on the places where you bought your fish to say 'hang on a minute, didn't you just buy a 10g tank last week and now you're buying an Oscar? I don't think that's a good idea - let me explain why'

On the otherside, I don't think any of us can blame our LFS anymore for 'leading us up the garden path', as we pretty much all have access to the internet or a library and can do our own research. There's also a lot of questions we know that we should always ask when buying a new fish, particularly if it's one we've never kept before. But how many of us just get caught up in the excitement of a new purchase? Or a rescue attempt?

I think that treating your own fish with care and respect, plus imparting your knowledge and experience to others, like you do by participating in this forum, makes up for the mistakes you may have made in the past.

And lets face it, sometimes it can feel like you're doing penance for past sins!

I personally think that fish keeping is easier then ever. Hardware has improved lots of the years along with lots of different medications/conditionsers

Thank goodness for that! I can't even imagine what monsters filters must have been 20 years ago!


Whew! Sorry for the huge long replies guys - I para-phrase you lot and then post huge replies myself! Ah well, I've never been known to take the easy route.

 

[guppymonkey]

This is completely off the topic (sorta) but I was reading my new issue of Aquarium Fish magazine and noticed a newsworthy item. In Rome they have outlawed keeping goldfish in bowls or giving them away as prizes (such as at carnivals or fairs). I like the idea of this, its not foolproof but its at least an attempt to get people to give proper care to their pets and prevents them somewhat from being taken advantage of by people who are just out to make money.

 

[dwarfgourami]

"Hi DG, I agree about there being more info and it being so much more readily available! Although I love the internet (the best invention ever...? Well, that and TV...microwaves...the jet engine....) I do prefer actually reading a fishy book."

I too love reading a fishy book- but that is another way life has got easier: there are so many more books around and so easy to find out what books there are. When I kept fish as a youngster, my local bookshop stocked 1 (one) book on fishkeeping. I lived in a small town in Sweden, with one tiny bookshop, no secondhand bookshops, no other towns within travelling distance. Possibly this was the only book there was in print at the time, this was before the import of foreign books had really got going. If there were other books, nobody could tell me about them. These days you surf the net for a book and order it in 5 minutes, wherever you live. And most people have more money.

"Glad things are going better for you this time round. How did you find out what you were doing wrong? Did you buy a book or was it the internet that saved your fish?"

I gave up fishkeeping and only came back to it after an interval of about 30 years. This time I knew information must be available, so I searched the net for it. And bought lots of books. Which you can easily do these days.

 

[DebraAustin]

As a new fish enthusiast I find that I have to rely on my common sense a lot. I get differing opinions on everything. In reading posts from different forums I can find one forum that says "don't do so and so" and another forum that says "so and so is great."

I also think that caring for fish is what you make of it. Of course there are minimum requirements for caring for your fish, but just like any other pet there are the minimalists and the maximalists (is that a word). Some people feed their dog regularly, take them for walks occasionally and groom them when necessary, others prepare special diets every day, feeding three times a day, walk their dog religiously, brush them daily and paint their toenails once a week. You can make your own assessment on where you fall on this scale with your fish. I want to have happy, healthy fish and will determine once I get to buy some (still cycling) what that actually takes.

I am very grateful for all the information. It helped me avoid the usual fish cycle (my lfs hadn't even heard of fishless cycling and was totally uninterested in hearing about it) and I've learned a lot about the habits of fish that I am interested in having in my tank (some of which I have changed my mind on from the information I got).


Debra