Is All This Necessary?

[buck_wildest]

First of all, Wow what a response in 24 hours!... wasnt expecting this.

... ultimately, it's the individuals choice... it seems you are happy keeping your fish in conditions that are not 'initially' as near as perfect for them as you could achieve...

I dont know for sure but it has worked for me and it will be how i do things.
Now how long does it take for a tank with fish take to cycle?

I can't explain why you manage to set up small tanks and stock them fully immediately (i.e. uncylced) without ever finding ammonia or nitrite. Unless you're adding nitrifying bacteria when you set them up - e.g. adding filter floss from an established tank - then I've no idea how it can happen.

I would love to know I have sucess doing this. BTW I have never used filterfloss or anything like it. No addatives other than aqua pure and aquarium salt.

and isnt the minimum tank size for jus one oscar 75 gallons?
and u have 2 HUGE ones in a 60-70?

Trust me the tank is more than 4 months old. And all the leverls are just about average, from the test kit I just bought. The Oscars are very responsive and its very often I see then 'playing'. They seem quite happy to me. Im even starting to 'train' them.

could be an established pair,
never jump to conclusions.

Acctually they are a pair. They were raised at the farm and given to me from the owner. They used to be in a ?500? Gallon bassin. They have not spawned since i have had them though.

Yes, cycling is necessary.
There are two possible exceptions

OK, so I've established that cycling is necesary.....sometimes?

Now a farm fish, if well cared-for, may not be as stressed and therefore able to cope with a tank in the process of cycling. This is just my theory.

Very interesting. But, I got my fish from the lfs and from the farm, same results. And yes, the process of shipping the fish often is horrific. If you all seen some of the conditions the fish go through before they get to your house you would not be worried about the stress caused by not cycling.

... do fish farms not involve truely gigantic bodies of water with what is effectively constant water changes? In which case, you wouldn't need to cycle the "tanks" to the same extent.

wasnt jumping to a conclusion. i think even a pair should have atleast 100G to swim in.

If you ever get a chance to go to a breeding farm for oscars you would be amazed. They are kept in concrete 'tanks' for the young ones and huge 'buckets' for the pairs. I hate to say it but most of the other farms conditions are alot worse than the one I work at. Some conditions are even sad.

Well, not gigantic, but they are rather large and they are not quite as heavily stocked as the LFS. At least that is the experience in the farm where I used to purchase fish.

If you don't mind me asking, Buck, what is your maintenance regimen? I perform 30% water changes/vacumning weekly. I change my CO2 units weekly and I dose fertilizers twice a week. I tend to overstock by American standards (use cm/liter rule), but my tanks are all densly planted.

Most fish farms do not sell to individuals. The ones that do are alot better than the ones that dont. This is because the money it takes to raise fish in "good" conditions makes it hard to make money. Which is why most farms are in buisness. I've been to quite a few around the Central Florida area and most keep there tanks overstocked. Example,200-300 fish in a 100 gallons of water.

No, I dont mind. For the guppies I must clean everyday, because of the bare bottom tanks. The bigger tanks I change what would be about 30% also, not evey week but 1-2 times a month. I haven't tried fertilizers, is that for the plants. I dont see how it could be for the fish. I have 'fake' ornaments that make te oscar tank look like a gladiators arena. I find I am cleaning the decor more than the water. I haven't had to clean the 'drift wood' in my smaller tank yet.

I think that a blanket statement questioning the value of cycling is inappropriate. You cannot extrapolate the Florida system to what we have at home. I would caution anyone reading this read as an 'OK' to go ahead with adding fish without cycling their tank. SH

Could you elaborate?

bUck

 

[The-Wolf]

Wierd, None of my quotes are quoting. Am I doing it right?

in the post there is one too many

 [/quote]

it can be found in this bit
then 'playing'. They seem quite happy to me. Im even starting to 'train' them.
[*/quote] (added asterix so it shows uo)
could be an established pair,
it should be a

 [quote]

not

 [/quote]

Very interesting topic

 

[buck_wildest]

Thanks Wolf.
I fixed that problem but still no luck.
Anything else?


Here is my other grief. Tank size limits. I just read the last few hours about it.
Example. Someone already told me that my, I guess its 60-70 gallons but I dont know for sure, is to small for my 2 Oscars. I know I called them HUGE but there are 'full grow', not abnormally large just grown. If id guess there 11-12 inches. Now they seem fine in this tank. I know one can't put a 2 foot gar in a 20 gallon tank but really 150 gallons is alot for only 2 oscars. Is there some sort of formula for deciding how much fish per gallon? Does it matter what species? How important is this compaired to cycling?

 

[The-Wolf]

then the only thing I can think of is there are too many quotes for the board settings.

 

[buck_wildest]

I dont know i'm just going to leave it alone. I hope its not to hard to navigate through. Anyone awake yet? I just watched a video of a Oscar in a tank that was way to small, by the 75 gallon rule, eating a live baby mouse. The post is in the 'Tropical Chit Chat' area. The same ones I feed to my Bearded dragons. I did not really mind it as it would happen in nature and the mouse was born to be eaten. I feed mine crickets and feeders weekly but they eat pellets a few times a day. Maybe the mouse was not a sutable meal though. I have read a few things about individuals hear who do not condone feeding live food to there fish. Another topic I believe is a ploy by corporations to get you to buy there food. Conspiracy? Lol maybe.

 

[Ami]

I dont know i'm just going to leave it alone. I hope its not to hard to navigate through. Anyone awake yet? I just watched a video of a Oscar in a tank that was way to small, by the 75 gallon rule, eating a live baby mouse. The post is in the 'Tropical Chit Chat' area. The same ones I feed to my Bearded dragons. I did not really mind it as it would happen in nature and the mouse was born to be eaten. I feed mine crickets and feeders weekly but they eat pellets a few times a day. Maybe the mouse was not a sutable meal though. I have read a few things about individuals hear who do not condone feeding live food to there fish. Another topic I believe is a ploy by corporations to get you to buy there food. Conspiracy? Lol maybe.

We are awake, the tank was too small and live food is okay to an extent (eg some people breed guppies as food, use crickets etc for certain types of fish) but the mouse thing - not good.

I think we're all waiting patiently for your tank stats Buck. Have you done the tests yet?

 

[buck_wildest]

No, I havent. But I will go do the test now. Its been a few days since the last test and I would like to ee if anything has changed.
Yes I agree with you about the mouse it was not suitable.
Be back In a few minutes it takes me awhile to do the test.

 

[lisie]

I don't think feeding live mice to bearded dragons is good either.

 

[buck_wildest]

Sorry, lisie, but I do and will continue to. Mice are not their main staple, crickets are, I feed them alot of things fruits, lettuce, pellets.

OK, test results up.

pH - 7.8
Amonia - 0 ppm mg/l
Nitrite - 0 ppm mg/l
Nitrate - 20-30 ppl mg/l

Everything is well for the Oscars, I think. Maybe some worries for the NitrAte levels? Is this normal for the Nitrate to be high at the end of cycling?

 

[lisie]

Well, maybe you'll think twice-- hopefully if, but perhaps when-- your beardies get injured...

 

[PlecMama]

I think I read that wrong, it looks like you just said you hoped his bearded dragons got injured. hummm.


I think a lot of people don't cycle. I think a lot of people here don't cycle but they wouldn't say it because everyone would jump on them.

 

[buck_wildest]

Well, maybe you'll think twice-- hopefully if, but perhaps when-- your beardies get injured...

They are 3 years old and I have been feeding them the same diet since they were 1 year. They are in perfect health and they breed almost every 3 months. But thanks for your input.

 

[jolaf]

My experience with fish keeping started quite a few years ago. I had a 10G tank and like you i did not do anything special except get fish I thought were cool. they lived pretty good for a few eyars. Then I got a 30g last year for my birthday and did a little research. It seems that the cycling was a very important step I may have missed early on. Even though my fish were ok from what I have read they live in a very stressful environment. my new tank I did cycle and I have never had a such a beautiful tank with minimal effort to keep it going. My fish I think thrive better and there is less loss of fish this time around. So, I guess I will be using the cycling method from here on out. I am glad your tank is working for you though good luck in the future. Try the cycling with a small tank and see the difference in the water clarity plant growth and fish activity.

Hello,

I am in no way tring to start a argument I would just like to know everyones oppinions about some things I have read on this site.

This is my first time reading about fish. Usually all the information I know is from my LFS (local fish store?)
and people I know who have or had fish experiance. So please feel free to correct me.

My experiance: I work at a tropical fish farm in Central Florida. Its privatly owned by my Moms cousine.
We raise/breed gourmies -reds, blues, pink, gold, kissers, and dwarfs also-, common pleacos, tiger barbs, oscars -all but veils-, and our specailty, Angels. We have over 200 breeding pairs. I have been working here for almost a year now. I work personaly with the outside ponds keeping the walking catfish and the trutles out, but I also pull orders and do shipping. At home I have a few tanks, a 40 gallon cichlid tank, and a 60-70 gallon tank with 2 huge oscars. Resently I started breeding guppies as a hobby. I have raised many guppy fry to adulthood and am trying to eventually make my own type of fancy guppy. Plus its great food for my oscars!

Well after all this time I have spent on my fish. I have never heard of cycling untill I came here. I can honestly say I have never let a tank cycle before adding fish to it. And at work I have never seen it done before. We are very succesful with the methods we have. The most I've ever done is condition the water(with aqua pure) and decorate before adding the fish. Most of the time I dont even let the fish acclimate to the water. And I usually have great success with fish. I maybe lost one cichlid out of the 10 I have in my tank.

Am I just lucky or is cycling really something that needs to be done. I dont think so. It probably helps if your fish are really really stressed, but I think its a waist of time. By the way, I bought a expensive test kit to check the pH, nitrates, nitites, and amonia levels and were about normal. Even a small 1 gallon tank I use to keep feeders in I just set up a week ago.

I have other isssues like this but i'll get to those later because this is getting really long. I dont think anyone is going to read it. Thanks for your replies.

bUck