Irresponsible Retailer?

[alex_6169]

Hi everyone, I am a newbie to the hobby (got my first 6 fish today).

When I was looking at one retailer for some fish I noticed a tank set up as a "take and go" tank (purchasing a fully set up, cycled tank with substrate, flora, ornaments and fish). The thing that got me though is that the fish were neon tetras and angelfish! Some poor unsuspecting person would think its a great deal only to find their tetras ending up as food down the track. Seeing this made me leave the shop pretty instantly, but not before noticing a siamese fighting fish (or similar looking) harassing the neon tetras in a display tank...

Now as I said, I am only a newbie, and it made me run in the opposite direction. What are some thoughts from some experiened aquarists.

Alex

 

[toshapetriji]

Well I´ve never heard of take and go but if was fully cycled before selling then I guess it is possible. To be honest though half the fun for me was doing the fishless cycle and asking a lot of questions of the more experienced members.

In some ways it was like an induction to fishkeeping.

By the time my tank was cycled I had gained a certain amount of knowledge and to date I have not lost any fish. That was a great relief because who wants to kill their fish?.

Take and go seems like a bit of a cheat to be honest, but I guess each to their own.

Welcome to TFF Alex6169

 

[lordofthesea]

you were right to be suspicious in some aspects. If the retailer was keeping fish together that were being harrassed I too would be. A responsible retailer would remove the offender immediately. However it takes a number of years for angel fish to become large enough to eat neons. It seems unlikely but every fighter has a different personality. Some are friendly some aren't. I have kept the three mentioned fish together in a tank and have not had any problems at all. It might have just been a particularly un-friendly one. If you suspect a dodgy retailer there are always signs to look for: many of the worse ones are general pet shops thought normally not the little independant ones. chain stores tend to be the worst. never buy from a tank containing dead fish of fish that have just come in to the shop - a good retailer wouldn't sell the new ones anyway. Never buy from someone who cannot answer all your questions. Lastly trust your instincts. Even the most inexperienced could spot a dodgy store when the see one as you have done. Be very careful if you chose to buy from there. All the best and good luck!

P.S. don't be alarmed if you lose one or two of your new fish. This is perfectly normal in a new tank. It happens to everyone. I agree with the member who answered above however. I find one of the best parts of fishkeeping is choosing and buying new fish to.

 

[rabbut]

I'm on the fence here. I am often left to run a 140 tank store on my own these days, and I can see things from the sales staffs' point of view. Even when I get more staff, it's on a busy day so we can't do maintanance, hence I have to do it myself during the weekdays on which I'm in..... Then again, I also visuit many shops in my local area fairly regularly and still see things from a customer's prospective also.

Angels and tetras can work long-term. Put the tetras with your angels while the angels are small and they are usualy OK, as the angels don't associate them as food. Get but angels in, and then add tetras and you'll then get your problems. Angels are used to you opening the tank and adding food, so when you open up and add snack-size neons, the food assosiation is regained and the angels have a nice slap-up meal... The adult angels associate anyting small and moving with food when first introduced, explaining those issues, but when you raise them with the tetras, they don't usualy bother them, as they couldn't eat them when first introduced and thus don't see them as food.

As both the above posters say, Fighters have different personalities. Most IME are fine with Neons, but you do get the odd one. Yes, idealy this fish would be moved, but in a busy retail enironment, the staff may just have been called away everytime that they tried to get round to it... Yes, to a customer it does not look good, but the staff may not be able to get round to it quickly, if there weren't enough staff on that day to deal with maintanance jobs and serving... In retail on your own, you also have to prioritise the jobs that need doing. Which would get periorty with you, the tank with the bust filter that is currently going over, or the tank with a single lone fighter picking on neons? To me, it would the the crashing tank first everytime...

You will need to realy look at how the store runs before drawing conclusions about the staff and the store. If there were more than enough staff on and they were not that busy, then they should have seen it. I'd have pointed it out, as they may not have seen it, after all they have to watch many tanks as well as serving and maintaning, they cannot see everything. If they ignored it once it was pinted out, they I'd have then made judgements about that staff member...

"Take and go" tanks are a new one on me. They sound like a cheat, but a workable cheat all the same to me, and I would not worry too much about that individual issue, as there are far worse things that they could sell, like Goldfish bowls, that I blatently don't agree with. If I had my way, my place of work would not still be offering them, but belive it or not, there is more money in those that the lage package tank deals, where the prices have been driven so low that costs are barely covered by them... This is why even reputable stores are reluctant to let them go, as they have to ballence the books at the end of the day

All the best
Rabbut

 

[toshapetriji]

Nice post Rabbut.

I too work in retail although not in livestock. The reduction in staff levels is often crippling and very often means a lowering of standards that we are just not able to rectify quickly. We don´t feel good about it but without adequate staffing standards are going to slip.

 

[alex_6169]

OK, I see your point now with the angels and neons becoming aquainted at a young age (hence asking the question ). There were a few other things that put me off, mainly the age of the staff. The store was run from a shed on their property (still a decent setup though). IT looked like a father and two kids (about 13-14 years old) and the kids couldnt answer my questions.

I think the take and go tanks are for people who want to look at fish, and not learn about them. Possibly for offices or waiting rooms? Good luck to those users when it comes to water changes etc.

Thanks for the welcome... Still have 6 fish in the morning, so I am happy.

 

[waterdrop]

I can verify the thing about angels and neons. Had many tanks long ago where angels grew up with neons and never ate any of them - all lived peacefully together.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

I had a tank like that myself and it worked for a couple of years. Then I started to notice that over a period of about 6 months I no longer had any neons. It did work for a while though.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

There were a few other things that put me off, mainly the age of the staff.

don't be so quick to judge

I live near Rabbut and visit his lfs, i've been visiting since he was a teenage saturday boy and he's always impressed us with his knowledge and enthusiasm.

I take his advise next to that of his boss whose an older man, I'd hazard a guess that he'll be retiring in the next few years, that sort of age. I'd take Rabbut's advise over his any day of the week.

it's easy to fall into the trap of assuming older = wiser, in fishkeeping that's very often not the case!!

 

[LauraFrog]

MW: Totally agreed. IME, older is worse. The people who have been keeping fish forever are often unwilling to switch from what they know and try something else. They don't tell people about new advancements (fishless cycling) because they have never tried them because they already have a method that is serviceable (put hardy fish in the tank, change water, wait) and don't want to try something new.

It's not the age of the staff that matters but their knowledge and commitment. Teenagers working in a shop (even though they are often older than me, I'm 14) are a warning sign to me because they are usually local highschoolers who want money and will take it wherever they can get it. This doesn't mean they aren't diligent employees who do the best they know. But if they have a bad or ignorant boss, or are overworked, or recieve little on the job training, you cannot expect them to be able to give sound advice 100% of the time, especially if they are not fishkeepers. I wouldn't judge somebody for working in a library and not having read every book on every shelf. So why should I judge teenage fish shop workers for putting in the hours and the work to get money? If they aren't fishkeepers they may not recognise the signs of aggression, the species that won't get on, or early warning signs of illness - just as that library worker may not be able to tell you whether or not you'd enjoy a certain book.

I know that might sound like an odd point of view, but I do sympathise with these teenage shop workers who are always bashed on here for not knowing everything. I think the real problem is the bosses, who aren't there to supervise them, don't give them enough training and TBH usually don't give a stuff what they sell to who as long as it sells. IME, privately owned aquarium stores usually don't get so much business they need to employ staff - and if they do, they employ people who know what they are talking about. It's the chain stores that are the problem where the owners don't give a **** about the animals' welfare or the reputation because most of the customers are walk-ins.

I have seen my own LFS sell inappropriate fish or fish combinations before. They try their best. But sometimes a customer JUST WON'T LISTEN. And they know that if they really, really want an oscar, they will go to another store. They will ask 'can I put an oscar in tank x with fish y.' The shop assistant will tell them, sure. They will buy it. So the owners of my LFS figure, well if they are determined to kill everything in their tank, then we might as well profit from it. They don't like it, but they know that they can't always talk people out of doing something stupid. They aren't the only LFS in the region. If somebody doesn't like what they are told, they will just keep on asking different people UNTIL SOMEONE TELLS THEM WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR. Human nature. I have seen it time and time again.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

totally agree, yes we should expect retailers to be responsible and give reasonable advise but people rely on it too much. I do sympathise with shop workers on minimum wage just trying to get some pocket money by working saturdays when people blast them for not being marine biologists with an encyclopedic knowledge of all fish.

we need to take personal responsibility, if you take on the care of an animals life it is no one's responsibility but your own to ensure you understand it's needs and can care for it appropriately.