Info

[Piltdownpaul]

Does anybody know anything about endlers and keeping them?

 

[fishwatcher]

I haven't kept any myself, but this should help.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=128756

 

[k.o.d]

I keep quite a few

From a purely personal perspective they are

1. Much more hardy than LFS guppies
2. Prefer harder water which suits me with horrible London water
3. Look much better than guppies
4. Are easy to keep and as long as you keep the water params good and feed them regularly, do not eat their offspring like guppies do

Steve

 

[nmonks]

Steve has said it nicely. Basically Endlers are what guppies were before they were inbred to get all those fanct veil-tail red tuxodeo whatsmacallits. Nothing wrong with those fancy guppies, but they aren't what guppies used to be. Wonder how long until Endlers are inbred to death?

Neale

 

[guppymonkey]

They are already making fancy breeds of endlers. A lot of these new breeds are crosses between guppies and endlers. So within a fairly short amount of time endlers could be extinct and only crossbreeds could exist.

 

[three-fingers]

But if two different species of animal breed the offspring is infertile, so that unlikely. Lets hope so anyway .

I love endlers, i cant have any right now, but that doesnt stop me wanting them. Two of my good lfs have them in now, and its temping to set up my 3gal for a few, but i have plans for that tank .

 

[Piltdownpaul]

Thanks for the information you lot cheers ,they are beautiful fish though. Might just have to invest in some.......................

 

[nmonks]

If only this was true... You are correct, most species cannot interbreed and produce fertile offspring, so this holds 99% of the time. But where species are very closely related, perhaps separated from a common ancestor in the very recent past, then they can and do interbreed, and in doing so produce fertile offspring. Platies and swordtails will interbreed, for example.

As a broad rule, species in different genera (e.g. Poecilia and Xiphophorus) will not interbreed, but species in the same genus (e.g. Poecilia sphenops and Poecilia velifera) may interbreed. For this reason, a lot of cichlid and livebearer enthusiasts tend to keep only different genera in the one tank.

Cheers,

Neale

But if two different species of animal breed the offspring is infertile, so that unlikely. Lets hope so anyway .

 

[catxx]

fortunately there are lots of people who want to keep pure endlers, i know mine never have and never will see a guppy. ever.

 

[guppymonkey]

If only this was true... You are correct, most species cannot interbreed and produce fertile offspring, so this holds 99% of the time. But where species are very closely related, perhaps separated from a common ancestor in the very recent past, then they can and do interbreed, and in doing so produce fertile offspring. Platies and swordtails will interbreed, for example.

As a broad rule, species in different genera (e.g. Poecilia and Xiphophorus) will not interbreed, but species in the same genus (e.g. Poecilia sphenops and Poecilia velifera) may interbreed. For this reason, a lot of cichlid and livebearer enthusiasts tend to keep only different genera in the one tank.

Cheers,

Neale

Wouldn't fertile offspring argue that instead of being separate species that instead the two species are in fact the same species or at least subspecies? I haven't researched this very much but I have read some arguments saying that many supposed species of fish, such as mollies, platies and swordtails, which have several species that can all interbreed successfully are in fact really the same species or closely related subspecies and not actually separate species.

 

[who-izzet]

I have a tank full of endlers, purely for breeding. I have another tank with livebearers in & I've added some black bar endlers with the guppies in that tank. I've got some cross breeds which are really stunning. I've never seen a guppy/endler with so many different colours. I was hoping for the guppies huge tail but generally they are just a bigger endler with more colours & the small endler tail.

I have never seen them in an aquatics apart from the one I supply with them in my area.

I remember when I first seen them on ebay. 6 would fetch anywhere from £20-£60 on ebay, they are alot cheaper now.

 

[nmonks]

You're right, of course, that if things do interbreed and produce fertilie offspring, they can't be *that* different.

Taxonomy -- the science of classifying animals and plants -- is basically about pigeon-holing things: finding boxes into which you can dump individuals and call that box "a species". In reality, a species isn't a box but a twig on a tree, the Tree of Life. All the twigs are connected eventually, some close together on one branch, some further away. Some scientists consider twigs that are joined onto each other as actually one diverse species (such taxonomists are called "lumpers"). Others would call each twig its own species (these taxonomists are the "splitters").

So basically species aren't like stamps or cars where each type is completely distinct. Instead, they all blend into each other eventually, and the boundaries between them (how you define each species) becomes a subjective human activity.

However, having said all this, in the wild hybridisation between species, though it does happen, is fairly uncommon. Species tend to go for their own kind, and things like mating behaviour make sure of this. In the confines of aquaria a male platy, say, might not have the option of choosing between a female platy and a female swordtail, and so it accepts second-best and mates with a female swordtail.

Cheers,

Neale

Wouldn't fertile offspring argue that instead of being separate species that instead the two species are in fact the same species or at least subspecies? I haven't researched this very much but I have read some arguments saying that many supposed species of fish, such as mollies, platies and swordtails, which have several species that can all interbreed successfully are in fact really the same species or closely related subspecies and not actually separate species.

 

[diburning]

the lake that endlers were found in is now a landfill