Indian Almond Leaves

[kizno1]

im going to get a pair of Betta Imbellis to go in a 14g tank with 4g seprated of for a male betta splended
i now you need to keep them with indian almond leaves but how often do you have to replace them because some places i was looking at said 2 weeks and others said a few months so how often is it?

 

[WaterH2o]

i replace mine every 3-4 weeks before it rots in the water

 

[Honeythorn]

You know, I dislike the idea of leaving a leaf rotting around in the water.

I've never used IAL, but I was thinking if I were to try some out, would it be possible to pour hot ( not boiling ) water over the leaves in a big jug, leave them to stand for a couple of weeks, and then bottle the resulting liquid to use in the tank, whilst throwing the leaves away? Sort of like an infusion to leach the properties from the leaves.


It seems a good idea in theory but I've never done it so I am wondering if it would work.

 

[Curiosity101]

You know, I dislike the idea of leaving a leaf rotting around in the water.

I've never used IAL, but I was thinking if I were to try some out, would it be possible to pour hot ( not boiling ) water over the leaves in a big jug, leave them to stand for a couple of weeks, and then bottle the resulting liquid to use in the tank, whilst throwing the leaves away? Sort of like an infusion to leach the properties from the leaves.


It seems a good idea in theory but I've never done it so I am wondering if it would work.

I'm vaguely remembering a product made like that HoneyThorn...I think it's called betta tonic or something...
Try the betta lady's website and have a quick browse if you're interested.

Edit: It wasn't on her website that I saw it. But it's called Atison's Betta Spa and is a liquid form, which at a guess is produced by boiling loads of almond leaves and tapping off the resulting liquid.

 

[Gill]

I Tended to throw them away after 3 weeks.
HT - I Boiled them up in an old pan - Boiled untill almost black - Removed the Leaves to boil again another day - Strained the liquid once Cool and Used Coke Bottles to store in.
Also you could use Attisons Betta Tonic. I have Seen Maidenhead aquatics Stores stocking them recently.

 

[Honeythorn]

Well I'm not going to buy it if I can make it! I think I'll get some IAL on ebay and give it a go. Seems the same as boiling nettles and mint from what you describe. My bettas are all in good health without IAL but a little tonic wouldn't go amiss I'm sure, and it seems better than leaving a great dirty leaf in the tank to rot and go mangy.

 

[Tolak]

I've left them in the tank to deteriorate with many species more sensitive than domestically bred bettas. You would be surprised at the depth of leaf litter, twigs, and other debris below fish in their natural environment. Haven't had a problem, vac them out after they fall apart.

 

[pippoodle]

YOU need Indian almond leaves for Betta imbellis as they are wild caught and dont do well without them
I do the same as Tolak - leave them in the tank until they deteriorate and vac out the excess , my imbellis enjoy hunting around in the leaf litter , i know a lot of people dont like it but if yopu are having WILD caught fish you need to take this into consideration

Remove carbon aswell as the imbellis need the tannins from the leaves

 

[JenCliBee]

YOU need Indian almond leaves for Betta imbellis as they are wild caught and dont do well without them
I do the same as Tolak - leave them in the tank until they deteriorate and vac out the excess , my imbellis enjoy hunting around in the leaf litter , i know a lot of people dont like it but if yopu are having WILD caught fish you need to take this into consideration

Remove carbon aswell as the imbellis need the tannins from the leaves

Is this info actually correct?, since alot of people have recently been interested in these ive had a little read up and most sites seem to think they are not to fussy with water params. They dont seem to be blackwater fish so going by what iv read alot of info seems to be wrong......

Few little things from what ive read about BETTA IMBELLIS.......


"Care: Can be kept in small 40 cm tanks, but also in community tanks, although it should never be kept together with Betta splendens. Tanks should be densely planted, including floating plants. Water schould be around neutral and not too hard, dark soil brings out the colors better. Some type localities require slightly acidic waterconditions. The fish will inhabit the quieter parts of the tank, Betta imbellis dislikes stronger currents. The fish are in general quite hardy, as long as the temperature is kept in the higher regions, and the air above the tank is kept at the same temperature."


Water Conditions "Not critical, imbellis is very tolerant of water chemistry and thrives in almost any type of water as long as it is clean and well filtered. They should be kept at mid 70s to low 80s F."


"Aquarium setup: Betta imbellis (Peaceful Betta) needs a lot of long stemmed plants amog which they might hide as they are very shy and don't come out very often. You should setup your aquarium to maximize the number of hiding places available."


"This species does best in a well-planted, shady tank with plenty of surface cover in the form of tall stem plants (Hygrophila corymbosa is a good choice and is dead easy to grow), floating species such as Salvinia or Riccia or perhaps tropical lilies of the genus Nymphaea. Lower down the tank Cryptocorynes are a good choice and will cope with the dim conditions. The addition of a few driftwood roots and branches can also add to the natural feel, and will provide further hiding places for the fish. If you can't find driftwood of the desired shape, common beech or oak is safe to use if thoroughly dried and stripped of bark. To these can be attached other plants that thrive under low lighting such as such as Microsorum pteropus, Vesicularia dubyana or African Anubias. Small clay plant pots, lengths of plastic piping or empty camera film cases can also be included to provide further shelter.

Whilst not as useful as with some other members of the genus (as this is not considered a blackwater species across most of its range) the addition of a couple of handfuls of dried leaf litter (beech, oak or Ketapang almond leaves are all suitable; or indeed a mixture of all three) is recommended. In addition to offering yet more cover for the fish this brings with it the growth of microbe colonies as decomposition occurs. These tiny creatures can provide a valuable secondary food source for fry, whilst the tannins and other chemicals released by the decaying leaves are thought to be beneficial to the fish. Leaves can be left in the tank to break down fully or removed and replaced every few weeks.

As the species hails from sluggish waters, filtration should not be too strong. An air-powered sponge filter set to turn over slowly is adequate, or if using a power filter adjust it to the lowest flow setting. Keep the tank well-covered and do not fill it to the top as like all Betta it requires access to a layer of humid air above the water surface and is an excellent jumper."


And there s many more, these were taken all from different sites and speak only of...BETTA IMBELLIS.


This isnt to step on anybodies toes becasue i love the waypeople want to breed these so less are taken from the wild, however the info given to keep these fish seem to be wrong, and maybe putting a few people off actually keeping them to infact breed to help the wild situation out.


All feedback is welcomes, i dont plan on keeping these fish but just find reasearching uncommon species to be quite rewarding...

So any thoughts peeps lol

jen

 

[three-fingers]

I also just leave the leaves in to deteriorate. If you have a decent biological filter (small internal, air powered sponge) leaving them in will create no issue, and will provide a more natural environment for them anyway.

The leaves release a lot of tannins within the first couple of days of being out in the water, then don't release any visible tannins.

So I would replace them/add more whenever you do a large (~50%) water change, or after a few smaller water changes.

In nature they seem to have been recorded in soft water anywhere between pH6.0-7.0, but as JenCliBee says they wont actually be nearly that fussy as long as the water is clean. I'd figure that (just like with CRS) reports of people saying they died or didn't do well in alkaline and/or hard water isjust because they were keeping them in too small and/or uncycled tanks - since they will be very sensitive to ammonia, and when the more acidic the water is the more of this ammonia is going to be in it's non-toxic ammonium form.
Not at all an issue when your tank is cycled properly.

Of course if you plan on breeding them, it is best to emulate nature as much as possible.

 

[pippoodle]

I have found the imbellis not to be shy at all - as i had read like you Jen that they were very shy but in fact very inquisitive and active fish , they never hide and are always swimming about in the open - they are now in 400 litre + corner tank and loving every minute of it , apart from when 2 jumped out

you're quote Jen says it's recommended adding the leaf litter - I had a letter from the exporter stating that they were kept with ketapang leaves after capture and to keep them with this until they had become more used to our conditions


Not a lot of people keep these fish at the moment so hopefully the more of us that can breed them and put them in the hobby market will reduce the price and the need for the capture of wild fish --- I wouldn't buy a wild caught fish without thinking i could breed them - currently breeding my wild caught brigitte rasboras
But thats just my opinion

 

[JenCliBee]

you're quote Jen says it's recommended adding the leaf litter - I had a letter from the exporter stating that they were kept with ketapang leaves after capture and to keep them with this until they had become more used to our conditions

Thats the thing though hun, it says recommended not that it's a must, ive read alot of posts about these recently and the advice given is you must have these leavesif you wont to keep them and also you must have tannins in the water which from the quotes isnt essential. Ive read that these fish come from waters both with tannins and without tannins which makes it a non essestial thing for them, most fish will benefir from tannins of some sort but not actually nessersary hence the original post.... im all for making the fish feel at home as though it was natural but advice given is right and wrong.... tannins for instance recent replies to threads says it's nessersary but if they come from both clear and tanned water then the info should be made clear.

As i said above this isnt a message to contradict peoples advice just a message to help others out which have or might have been put off by advice which isnt strichley correct in the full sense.

Full info available makes it much better for the fish in the long run for the reason that people arnt instantly put off by alot of hard work, which is what these fish have seemed to be made to be, when infact the info ive been reading makes them even easier to keep than slendens(sp) themselves becasue they will tollerate much more of a varied param of water.

I agree with three-fingers if thats what they require for breeding then so be it but as mentioned above, the fish may not be from tanned waters nor actually be black water fish so they would breed naturally without tannins..... so tanned water isnt a nessersety

Everythink ive read makes these fish very easy to keep, and not actually require as much as people have been saying.

Just to say the source material ive read so far has been from around 20 different sites and only one has mentioned you need the leaves in the water, which is the quote from above and even that says its RECOMMENDED not somethink that has to be used.

Sorry for the ramble pmsl
jen

 

[kizno1]

what so i can just leave them in the tank until they deteriorate?
and will a betta splended be ok with them because he will be on the other side of the divider?
and how many should i get for a 10g tank?

 

[kizno1]

do they have to have tan off Indian Almond Leaves or could it just be wood or dose Indian Almond Leaves have somethink special in it

 

[pippoodle]

i use indian almond leaves even in all my tanks now and will be using them with my new splendens when i get him it's said the tannins improve their general health and can help during breeding

i use one leaf in large leaf in larger tanks and half a large leaf in the smaller tanks - just under a half leaf in 60 litre