Ick Issues

[rossclan151]

I am new to this forum and have an ICK emergency.  I have a newer 30 gallon fish tank (3 months) that I did an ammonia fishless cycle on.  I have tested the water every week since it was cycled and we are good to go.  I also challenged the tank with ammonia to make sure it was ready before adding fish.  I do at least 20% water changes every week.  I took three Zebra Danios from another tank and put them in the tank and waited and tested.  Added 5 Juli Cats from another tank and waited.  Everything seemed good.  In the tank I have three live plants.  Last week we added 5 Cherry Barbs to the tank that we purchased from a national pet chain along with one more live plant.  Within 3 days, the first Cherry Barb had white spots (we noticed at night) and by the morning it was dead.  All the other Cherry Barbs had spots as well by the morning.  I rushed to the store and picked up Ick Attack and immediately treated the tank.  I took out the charcoal filters, increased the temperature to 80 degrees from 75 degrees and added an oxygen curtain.  So I have the Marineland filter running with the bio-wheel without the filters.  Within 24 hours all 5 Cherry Barbs were dead and my Danios are covered in white spots.  It has been 3 days since the first treatment (I have treated daily per the instructions) and the water is looking a little murky.  The Juli Cats are in the corners at the top of the tank and seem to be distressed.  The Danios are moving around much better but still have spots.  My question is how long can they survive without the filters and should I do a water change?  I feel horrible about this.
 
PH = 7.8
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 5
 
Using an API test kit. Thank you for your help!

 

[nic1]

Hi.
You need to change the water very frequently if you haven't got a filter as ammonia will build up very quickly.
I would do a water change every day in the morning before adding fresh meds.

Sounds like you got a bad batch of fish from the store and your new aquarium wasn't established enough to sustain their health that they deteriorated quite quickly spreading white spot to the others, a new tank as everyone knows is quite unstable for 6 months up to a year afterwards. The good bacteria builds up over time to cope with the amount of fish added. In a new aquarium this has to be done slowly.

Cary on with the treatment and also carry out the water changes as Ii suggested.
Good luck

 

[rossclan151]

Ugh, I feel horrible.  I will commence with water changes immediately.  Ignorance is not bliss here.  I thought since I waited about 1 month between adding each batch that I was good to go.  I also learned a valuable lesson, because I now know that I need to quarantine any fish that are new.  We are devastated.  We are now down 7 fish.  The pet store told me to hold on water changes until 5 days of treatment had been completed.  I am done with this national chain!  Thank you for your help and please any more advice would be wonderful.  Heartfelt thanks....

 

[nic1]

Don't feel bad, when I buy new fish I often acclimatise them by adding water from the main tank into the bag slowly over 20 minutes then I catch the fish And put them in the tank minus the water just incase there are any nasties in the bag.
I also have a thermometer to test the bag water and match it to the tank water.
I don't have a q tank but I do vet the shop they came from. If I see that they use a main filter that filters all the tanks then I stir clear.
I also stir clear from tanks with any dead fish. Ill looking fish and fish that have only been in the shop for a few days as too much traveling can stress them.
Also keep the light off for 24 hours when introducing new fish and don't feed them straight away.

 

[rossclan151]

I did float the bag, then add water from my tank, then finally scooping them out of the water into their new home.  In this case, I think the fish were already sick.  I know we need to wait for a very long time to get the entire tank back to health, but how long should I wait before adding more finned children?  We have 5 Juli Cats and 1 Danio left.  The pet store said they would replace any fish we lost, but, I think I will take a refund instead.  I am considering ordering via mail, however, wonder about that stress.  We are in the mountains and the closest "real" fish store is 2 hours away.  I am concerned about that long drive home.  Thank you again!

 

[nic1]

Well personally I would wait at least 3 months once the fish are better and showing no signs of ich. That way the filter would have a build up of good bacteria from the present inhabitants. Then I would probably add 3 more zebra danio as they are hardy and need to be in a group, then 3 more after 6 weeks and so forth.
Ordering via mail order I think is ok a they are traveling directly from the store and they are packed properly with heat mats in polystyrene boxes and well oxygenated bags.
If the store is two hours away this probably would be the best option.

No worry about the help

 

[rossclan151]

Completed a 20% water change today and this evening one of the danio's has one white blotch on each side of its body.  However, it is racing all over the tank and mood is great.  Does the Ick make them susceptible to other issues?  What now.....?  This is pretty frustrating.  Sorry to be asking so many questions.  Thank you!

 

[nic1]

In a short answer yes.
Once their immune system is low because of a disease then they are fragile until they seem better with no spots, torn find, lethargy, gasping etc... Your job is to keep an ideal environment so they can remain healthy. It's so complicating in the beginning but you'll soon learn the signs that your fish aren't happy-and normally a larger water change than your normal weekly one does the trick.

Without the filter I would still carry out 20% water siphoning out water from the bottom where the ich likes to hide and where ammonia builds up.
Oh yeah, I'm also not familiar with the bio wheel and how it works.. So it have a foam in it? Where does the gunk etc build up? Do you have an empty filter running at the moment? Or are there other elements in there?
Thanks.

 

[rossclan151]

This morning we have more disaster. A Julii Cat is now dead.  I can't seem to upload a photo, so I will detail what I see.  The bottom of the fish is red and there seems to be a swollen area with a white internal growth.  Before the water change, they seemed in stress and that darn pet store guy said don't change the water for 5 days.  Ugh!!  Everyone else seems happy and the tank looks good.  Last night, I replaced the filters in hopes of really clearing the water due to the disturbance while gently adding water back.  I tried to vacuum as best as possible without causing undo stress.  The Danio's take forever to net and with all the stress, I just couldn't chase them around. 
 
The filter is a Marineland penguin power head 350 (more than I really need for this 30 gal. tank).  It has an intake into two chambers that house two filters with charcoal.  The water then passes through the bio-wheel which is material where the friendly bacteria grow.  The water spins the wheels and then pours back into the tank.  I took out the filters during treatment, but, not the bio-wheels (wanted to maintain the water quality as much as possible).  I have continued to test the water and the levels have remained at nitrite 0, nitrate at or below 10, ph at 7.8 and ammonia at 0.  I also have an air curtain in the back of the tank.  Am I over oxygenating the tank with the curtain since I have the power heads?  The water is moving pretty well through there.  I wanted an active tank and that is why I originally chose the fish I have (had) <sigh>.  I have thought about putting a sponge on the intake to slow down the flow a bit. 
 
None of the fish look like they have Ick anymore.  Thank goodness!  The one Danio that looked like it had the white blotches seems a bit withdrawn but responsive and hungry this morning (that has got to be a good sign).  Blotches are still there.
 
What do you think happened to the Julii?   This is so traumatic and I feel like a horrible fish mom.  My children are so sad.  Well this is a very steep learning curve for me and that makes me sad.  Poor fishy fish.

 

[nic1]

Ok that's good. I just wanted to make sure that there was a place for the good bacterial colony to grow.
You one danio is probably withdrawn because he is the only one left. They like to be in groups, if they aren't then they do become withdrawn or if they are really bored will start to bully the other fish.
He should be fine by himself though until you add more at a later stage.

Corydoras are extremely sensitive to water quality, they also are very sensitive to meds, when my tank needs meds I halve the dose because I have very soft water (6.4ph). But sometimes when you have a crisis on your hands, you need to act fast.
I would advise that you purchase a product called Esha Exit, you can use this effectively with corys and scaleless fish friends. This is what I use- I have used a few meds in my time and this product is the only one I will use now.

Surface agitation and the bubble curtain is essential when using meds so I shouldn't worry, as long as the fish don't look like they are struggling against the currents and they have a spot in the tank where it's relatively calm, it's all good.

Do you think it's still necessary to continue the treatment if they no longer show signs of ich? As I'm thinking that the meds are having a direct effect on the corys. It's totally your decision but If there are no more spots then I would leave the tank for a couple of days observing the fish not adding anymore meds or doing water changes then carry out a 30% change on Sunday evening/Monday morning then re observe the fishes behaviour.
Let me know what happens

 

[rossclan151]

I didn't treat today and was not planning on treating, Yeah at least I got that right.  I can't find Esha Exit in the US.  The treatment I used was Ick Attack that was supposed to be safe for all scale-less fishes included loaches, eels and catfishes.  It was the reason I had to forgo treatment when I first discovered the Ick because Wal-Mart only carries treatment that would hurt the corys.  I had to wait until the next morning when the store 1 hour away opened.  It is an organic herbal treatment and was recommended by Petco sales associate.  It says it treats Ich and fungus.  I hope we are on the upswing here.  I will observe for the weekend and conduct a water change on Sunday.  Do most people take their fish out during water changes? 
 
I am most grateful for your immense help and support. 

 

[nic1]

No, leave the fish in the tank.... It would be very stressful trying to catch them every week for both you and them.
Just leave them in there while you clean around them.
My routine is spot cleaning the algae with a scrubbing magnet, cutting back any dead or dying plants, scooping up the fallen leaves from top of the tank then siphon out 20% of the water from the bottom of the tank making sure I disturb the substrate so I can suck up the dirt that's embedded there, then I fill up the tank again with conditioned water that's been matched temperature to temperature in the tank. All of this with the fish still in the tank, my weather loaches are so used to me now that they always swim up to my hand and sit on me!

Let me know how they are on Sunday or if anything changes. Fingers crossed they are getting better as we type.

 

[rossclan151]

Things have stabilized over the past 2 days.  No more dead fish!  Yeah!  Did an approx. 30% water change today and trimmed dead leaves.  Looking good.  This almost made me want to give up keeping fish.  Keeping my fingers crossed that we continue on this path.  Thank you again for everything.