How to wash a plant before adding to my tank?

[Naughts]

You can make a chlorine dip by mixing 19 parts of bleach to one part of water. Leave plant in the solution for 90 seconds. Then rinse with tap water. Then put plants in a bowl of water with dechlorinator added to it for several minutes. You can then add plants to your tank worry free. I have done this many times.. I even did it to remove algae from plants.

Shouldn't this read 19 parts water to 1 part bleach?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

That is simply not true. Copper sulfate is water soluble. You can dip the plant in a copper sulfate dip and then rinse it off 2 times. After that the only copper left will be copper in the tap water you used to rinse off the plant. If you rinse with DI water there will be no copper on the plant.

Copper levels in tap water range from about 0.01ppm to about 1.1ppm (the maximum allowed by the EPA Most of it comes from copper pipes in your home. My tap water has 0.050ppm of copper in it ( I have never used it in my aquarium because it is hard).

Plants need about 0.01ppm of copper to due well. If it is not there the plant will die. And shrimp also need copper.. IN people our blood is iron. in shrimp it is copper based.

https://animals.mom.me/animals-copperbased-blood-8379.html

https://aquariumbreeder.com/how-copper-affects-dwarf-shrimp/

I know that shrimp need trace amounts of copper, just as we need traces of some heavy metals, but can get heavy metal poisoning as well. But since most tap water, many plant fetilisers, and many commercial fish and shrimp foods already contain trace amounts of copper, I've been made as paranoid about adding additional copper to the tank as most shrimp keepers are.

For example, the experts on WWM mention that sand can absorb and hold into copper (before inevitable leeching), and I will be using sand in my tanks soon. But perhaps that's some kind of live sand, and not your typical inert aquarium sand? I don't have the knowledge base to know. Plus some rocks will absorb and then gradually release it. And a drop in pH can apparently cause a safe amount of copper for shrimp to become a deadly amount, and the line between safe and deadly is pretty fine, and variable between different species of shrimp.

"Copper Hi, I was sold some copper to treat my puffer but later found out this killed my live rock and sand. So I am getting the copper out and replacing the live rock, should I get new sand too? <Sand does absorb copper and it will be present for quite some time at a residual level. If it were my call, I'd replace it. James (Salty Dog)>"

CuRemovalFAQs

Your own source: https://aquariumbreeder.com/how-copper-affects-dwarf-shrimp/
Cautions against adding plants that have been copper dipped:

New Plants Quarantine
Do not ever add newly purchased aquarium plants into the shrimp aquarium right away. You need to quarantine them because:

1. They can have pesticides.
2. Plants can be treated with copper to remove snails.

And they conclude with: "
For the dwarf shrimp that depend on haemocyanin as a circulating oxygen carrier, copper metabolism presents conflicting requirements. On the one hand, haemocyanin maintenance requires the accumulation of a relatively large quantity of copper. Because copper is also essential for dwarf shrimp molting and reproduction. They cannot absorb adequate amounts of copper from ambient water for physiological needs and a dietary source is necessary to meet the needs for optimal growth and tissue mineralization. On the other hand, copper is extremely toxic to all dwarf shrimp.

The problem is that the optimal range of environmental concentrations that avoids deficiency and toxicity can be rather narrow."

I am terrible at chemistry, so I'm very happy if I'm proven to be wrong! It's very possible that I believed anecdotal stories of old tanks being contaminated with copper when that isn't true -I'd heard about it being left on the sealant for example, after years. Since I buy my tanks second hand and I keep shrimp, that has made me very cautious about cleaning them and running a canister filter containing cuprisorb to remove both copper, and traces of any other heavy metals or medications left in the tank. It would be nice if I don't need to worry about that, curprisorb isn't cheap.

@essjay, you do know chemistry very well, and also said you'd be concerned about a copper dip if the OP wanted snails or shrimp in the future, what do you think? I'd trust your judgement on this!

 

[Lajos_Detari]

I know that shrimp need trace amounts of copper, just as we need traces of some heavy metals, but can get heavy metal poisoning as well. But since most tap water, many plant fetilisers, and many commercial fish and shrimp foods already contain trace amounts of copper, I've been made as paranoid about adding additional copper to the tank as most shrimp keepers are.

For example, the experts on WWM mention that sand can absorb and hold into copper (before inevitable leeching), and I will be using sand in my tanks soon. But perhaps that's some kind of live sand, and not your typical inert aquarium sand? I don't have the knowledge base to know. Plus some rocks will absorb and then gradually release it. And a drop in pH can apparently cause a safe amount of copper for shrimp to become a deadly amount, and the line between safe and deadly is pretty fine, and variable between different species of shrimp.

"Copper Hi, I was sold some copper to treat my puffer but later found out this killed my live rock and sand. So I am getting the copper out and replacing the live rock, should I get new sand too? <Sand does absorb copper and it will be present for quite some time at a residual level. If it were my call, I'd replace it. James (Salty Dog)>"

CuRemovalFAQs

Your own source: https://aquariumbreeder.com/how-copper-affects-dwarf-shrimp/
Cautions against adding plants that have been copper dipped:

New Plants Quarantine
Do not ever add newly purchased aquarium plants into the shrimp aquarium right away. You need to quarantine them because:

1. They can have pesticides.
2. Plants can be treated with copper to remove snails.

And they conclude with: "
For the dwarf shrimp that depend on haemocyanin as a circulating oxygen carrier, copper metabolism presents conflicting requirements. On the one hand, haemocyanin maintenance requires the accumulation of a relatively large quantity of copper. Because copper is also essential for dwarf shrimp molting and reproduction. They cannot absorb adequate amounts of copper from ambient water for physiological needs and a dietary source is necessary to meet the needs for optimal growth and tissue mineralization. On the other hand, copper is extremely toxic to all dwarf shrimp.

The problem is that the optimal range of environmental concentrations that avoids deficiency and toxicity can be rather narrow."

I am terrible at chemistry, so I'm very happy if I'm proven to be wrong! It's very possible that I believed anecdotal stories of old tanks being contaminated with copper when that isn't true -I'd heard about it being left on the sealant for example, after years. Since I buy my tanks second hand and I keep shrimp, that has made me very cautious about cleaning them and running a canister filter containing cuprisorb to remove both copper, and traces of any other heavy metals or medications left in the tank. It would be nice if I don't need to worry about that, curprisorb isn't cheap.

@essjay, you do know chemistry very well, and also said you'd be concerned about a copper dip if the OP wanted snails or shrimp in the future, what do you think? I'd trust your judgement on this!

You are right in some points as they are people who had bad experience after dozing with Copper.
I heard that they were unable to remove Copper completely from their tank even with water change or the use of activated carbon.

On the other hand, Steven wasn't talking about putting Copper in your tank.
He was just explaining about dipping the plants in Copper and rinsing them off later.
It's a different scenario from what you mentioned.


I have another explanation/theory :
From my understanding, there are a few forms of Copper and some like Copper sulfate can dissolve in the water.
And by changing water, the Copper can be removed.

But in my opinion, I can't guarantee that the Copper sulfate will dissolve 100% in the water.
In the event if the Copper becomes unstable and couldn't bind with the water, then it will be a problem.
Also as you mentioned, the inert objects or even sand and rock can absorb the Copper.
[ For empty tank/glass, it should be easy to remove the Copper by simply scrubbing it with sponge and rinsing it with water ]

However, there are arguments that Copper sulfate is very stable in the water and bind easily with water.
Hence, I can't really make a conclusion here about the use of Copper if there are shrimps around.

 

[Essjay]

My concern would be plants taking up copper, and if the plants died - or even just a few leaves died off - and they were left in the tank, as the plant decomposed the copper would be released back into the water.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

My concern would be plants taking up copper, and if the plants died - or even just a few leaves died off - and they were left in the tank, as the plant decomposed the copper would be released back into the water.

Yes, this is also possible as most plants may absorb any chemical in the water.
Plants are the best filters for aquarium.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

You are right in some points as they are people who had bad experience after dozing with Copper.
I heard that they were unable to remove Copper completely from their tank even with water change or the use of activated carbon.

On the other hand, Steven wasn't talking about putting Copper in your tank.
He was just explaining about dipping the plants in Copper and rinsing them off later.
It's a different scenario from what you mentioned.


I have another explanation/theory :
From my understanding, there are a few forms of Copper and some like Copper sulfate can dissolve in the water.
And by changing water, the Copper can be removed.

But in my opinion, I can't guarantee that the Copper sulfate will dissolve 100% in the water.
In the event if the Copper becomes unstable and couldn't bind with the water, then it will be a problem.
Also as you mentioned, the inert objects or even sand and rock can absorb the Copper.
[ For empty tank/glass, it should be easy to remove the Copper by simply scrubbing it with sponge and rinsing it with water ]

However, there are arguments that Copper sulfate is very stable in the water and bind easily with water.
Hence, I can't really make a conclusion here about the use of Copper if there are shrimps around.

My concern would be plants taking up copper, and if the plants died - or even just a few leaves died off - and they were left in the tank, as the plant decomposed the copper would be released back into the water.

I appreciate the educated and well explained response, it's so helpful for chemistry dunces like me, thank you! Sounds like erring on the side of caution with any copper and plants is safer for those of us who keep copper sensitive species, especially since a bleach dip is simple and inexpensive, and we know is safe with enough rinsing and using declorinator. But I will definitely be more careful about where the plants I buy come from, just to be on the safe side.

It's also great to know that the glass/silicone itself should be fine with a good clean, since any 'new' second hand tank gets that anyway, but I don't need to worry about the cuprisorb except for my own quarantine tank after using certain meds. Thank you kindly! I'll have to be mindful of sand though, and I got some dragonstone a while ago that might hold onto copper.

 

[StevenF]

I have another explanation/theory :
From my understanding, there are a few forms of Copper and some like Copper sulfate can dissolve in the water.
And by changing water, the Copper can be removed.

But in my opinion, I can't guarantee that the Copper sulfate will dissolve 100% in the water.

Quick google search, water solubility of copper sulfate is 243grams per liter at 0C (32F). So basically copper sulfate is always soluble. A simple water change will remove it from the tank. However when you talk about medications you are talking about a mix or organics that may have copper as part of the molecular matrix. There is no easy way to know anything about the medication. but it is entirely possible that the copper in the medication is not the problem while the organic part is.

The problem is that the optimal range of environmental concentrations that avoids deficiency and toxicity can be rather narrow."

Every one says that but there is no data to back up the claim for aquarium shrimp. With tap water copper levels allowed to be up to below 1.1ppm (EPA limit) and no good test kits that can read below 0ppm and plants needing about 0.01ppm how is anyone going to know what their copper levels are without doing a lab test? People have basically assumed copper was the problem and everything you read is based on multiple assumptions and guesses.

What I do know is that my RO water has zero copper and as a result aquarium fertilizers on the market generally don't work for me because they generally have at most 1/10 of the copper level plants need and often even less zinc and no calcium. While my tap water (which is not used in my aquarium) tested at 0.05ppm. All local aquarium shops using the same local tap water also had tanks with snails and a couple of times I even found shrimp in these shops. Also just about everything in fertilizers can kill shrimp is the dose is too high or even too low. And there is not data as to what the suitable limits are. And shrimp snails and all need sodium and iodine. If your water doesn't have these they will over time die off.

For example, the experts on WWM mention that sand can absorb and hold into copper (before inevitable leeching), and I will be using sand in my tanks soon. But perhaps that's some kind of live sand, and not your typical inert aquarium sand?

Sand is mainly silicon dioxide (quartz) with some aluminum oxide and iron oxide. It is completely inert and will not absorb anything. However there is a lot of empty space between the sand grains. Bacteria can live in this space and when they die mineral rich organic material can build up in between the sand grains. Another thing to keep in mind is that very little water will flow through the sand. So anything that gets in there may not be removed in one water change. Its probably best to periodically stir up some of the sand with a stick periodically to get some of the stuff out.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Quick google search, water solubility of copper sulfate is 243grams per liter at 0C (32F). So basically copper sulfate is always soluble. A simple water change will remove it from the tank. However when you talk about medications you are talking about a mix or organics that may have copper as part of the molecular matrix. There is no easy way to know anything about the medication. but it is entirely possible that the copper in the medication is not the problem while the organic part is.



Every one says that but there is no data to back up the claim for aquarium shrimp. With tap water copper levels allowed to be up to below 1.1ppm (EPA limit) and no good test kits that can read below 0ppm and plants needing about 0.01ppm how is anyone going to know what their copper levels are without doing a lab test? People have basically assumed copper was the problem and everything you read is based on multiple assumptions and guesses.

What I do know is that my RO water has zero copper and as a result aquarium fertilizers on the market generally don't work for me because they generally have at most 1/10 of the copper level plants need and often even less zinc and no calcium. While my tap water (which is not used in my aquarium) tested at 0.05ppm. All local aquarium shops using the same local tap water also had tanks with snails and a couple of times I even found shrimp in these shops. Also just about everything in fertilizers can kill shrimp is the dose is too high or even too low. And there is not data as to what the suitable limits are. And shrimp snails and all need sodium and iodine. If your water doesn't have these they will over time die off.



Sand is mainly silicon dioxide (quartz) with some aluminum oxide and iron oxide. It is completely inert and will not absorb anything. However there is a lot of empty space between the sand grains. Bacteria can live in this space and when they die mineral rich organic material can build up in between the sand grains. Another thing to keep in mind is that very little water will flow through the sand. So anything that gets in there may not be removed in one water change. Its probably best to periodically stir up some of the sand with a stick periodically to get some of the stuff out.

I think most of this is above my intellectual capability, but I appreciate the insights nonetheless, thank you!

 

[Fishmanic]

@Naughts ..... I stand corrected...in my previous post, you would make a solution of 19 parts water to 1 part of bleach.