How To Safely Upgrade Tank?

[librarygirl]

Hi,

I have a small 5 gallon hex tank with 4 Glofish. The tank has been set up for almost 3 weeks. Been doing daily water changes and frequent (API) water tests. Ammonia keeps staying at 0.25 (can't get the test to go yellow, always seems to have that greenish tinge to it and I haven't seen the higher spikes that are supposed to come with cycling), Nitrates and Nitrites both 0 (no spike at all yet), ph around 7.0. I'm thinking maybe I have too small a tank for the stock I have in there, plus I'd like to give them a larger home. So I bought a 10 gallon Eclipse (same manufacturer, Marineland). My question: how do I safely move the fish and all the stuff into the new tank (or should I)? While the brand of filter is the same the size is different, so the old filter probably wouldn't fit in the new tank but I don't even know if I have any bacteria yet. As far as I can tell I haven't started cycling at all (any idea why? is 3 weeks too soon?).

Any advice?

Thanks!

 

[waterdrop]

Can you describe the size, shape and types of media you have in the two filters? I think the ideal thing is going to be to see whether all the media of the old filter can somehow (you have to be creative about these things) be fit "into" the new media within the new filter. It is ideal to determine the direction of water flow inside the filter and then to somehow position the old media against(touching) the new media (ideally media of similar types) directly ahead of the new media in the water flow. This is because both old and new bacterial cells can become detached from the old media but then catch and anchor themselves in the new media after flowing a short distance inside the filter.

By moving all the media and fish at once, you simply continue the cycling process you are already doing. You probably have a decent amount of bacteria by now. You are not seeing spikes because you are in a fish-in cycle and making a lot of water changes, which is diluting out the spikes and making them harder to see. You also have about the right fish load for a fish-in cycle, which means it is safer for the fish but again harder to see definate feedback. Note that some light sources, fluorescent in particular, can impart a greenish look to the test results when an incandescent source might make the result look more yellow - not saying this is necessarily the case as it also makes sense the you might indeed be seeing more or less steady ammonia at this stage.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[librarygirl]

Hi waterdrop, thanks for your reply:

This is my current 5 gallon hex tank: http/www.amazon.com/Marineland-Eclipse-Seamless-Integrated-Aquarium/dp/B000260GEC and this is the filter media it currently takes: http/www.amazon.com/Marineland-Rite-Size-Cartridge-3-Pack/dp/B0002565TI/ref=pd_bxgy_k_img_b

This is the new tank (I could only find a 12 gal version and not a 10, so maybe mine is a 12 gallon, it's at home so I can't double-check, looked at a lot of them before I purchased this one so maybe it is a 12 gal): http/www.amazon.com/Marineland-Eclipse-Seamless-Integrated-Aquarium/dp/B0002APZWQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303218063&sr=8-1 and this is the new cartridge: http/www.amazon.com/Marineland-Rite-Size-Cartridge-3-Pack/dp/B0002565T8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1303218154&sr=1-1

The new cartridge is much longer than the old. So would I be able to use both? It doesn't seem like both would fit if the longer one takes up all of the room. And if I can't have both fit, is it still safe to move everything over now? Should I put the old filter inside the tank for a while instead?

If I can move everything over, how would I safely do that? I'm guessing I would rinse off any new decorations etc first (I have to fill the bigger tank!), take out the current tank water into buckets and put the fish in them, take out all of the old media and put it in the new tank, put the old water in with the fish and then fill the rest with treated water...? Yes?

Sorry, just want to do this the right way.

Thank you!

 

[librarygirl]

Anyone? I'd like to set up the new one today, here's what I'm planning:

1. Since the new tank is going where the current tank is, I'm going to move the old tank over onto a temporary stand just a foot or so away from where it is now so I can place the new tank
2. Set up the new tank:

• fill with new treated water about 3/4 of the way
• rinse new decorations and gravel and place into new tank
• take some of the gravel from the current tank and place into new
• squeeze water from old filter onto new
• set up thermometer and heater
• let run for at least 8 hours

3. test the water in the old and new tanks
4. once the temp, ammonia, and ph match, I will:

• transfer the rest of the old gravel to the new tank
• transfer the remaining decorations from old to new tank
• transfer air stone

5. move the fish
6. As i mentioned below, my new tank has a larger Bio wheel and filter than the old one, so I was going to at least try to place the old filter on top of the new filter for a while and let it run, if both can fit that way; would this be beneficial at all?

Anything I'm missing? Is this OK to do?

Thanks!

 

[librarygirl]

Well I'm hoping what I said was OK b/c I've got the new tank set up (no fish yet) and it's been running since yesterday.

I just tested my current smaller tank and readings are the same: ammonia around 0.25 (hard to tell, the teal colors are similar, but I don't think it matches the full 0.5 reading, so it might be in between), ph was 6.4-6.6 (ph tends to fluctuate on me, this is the lower reading I've gotten so far, maybe b/c I changed water yesterday and took out some decorations and gravel for the new tank?), nitrates/nitrites both still 0. I did a 40% water change after the readings for the ammonia (although ammonia seems to hold at that level no matter what I do).

I set up the new tank yesterday, water is clear, temp matches. I haven't done a water test yet b/c I'm waiting for the vials to dry before I put them in the new water.

I'm not sure how to get the ph to match if it doesn't....? Anyway, I'll test in a bit and if things seem to match I'll move the fish over in cups with water from the old tank and try to place the current filter on top of the new one. I hope they like they're new larger home and I hope I don't kill them

Another question: for the larger tank (12 gal) what's the minimum amount of water changes I should do daily while the tank cycles? half? less? more? Also as I mentioned it's been 3 weeks and no change in levels at all, no ammonia spike or drop, no nitrates/nitrites. Is this normal? Am I doing something wrong?

Please help! Don't want to kill my little guys, I love them already!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I'm not sure how to get the ph to match if it doesn't....? Anyway, I'll test in a bit and if things seem to match I'll move the fish over in cups with water from the old tank and try to place the current filter on top of the new one. I hope they like they're new larger home and I hope I don't kill them

Unless you changed the pH significantly from what came from your tap, it probably will already match. It's the same water!

 

[librarygirl]

I'm not sure how to get the ph to match if it doesn't....? Anyway, I'll test in a bit and if things seem to match I'll move the fish over in cups with water from the old tank and try to place the current filter on top of the new one. I hope they like they're new larger home and I hope I don't kill them

Unless you changed the pH significantly from what came from your tap, it probably will already match. It's the same water!

Thank you! So is what I'm doing OK? And what about the amount of water changes for the larger tank?

 

[librarygirl]

Well, it's done. Water parameters were the same (Ammonia may have been slightly less than the old tank, hard to tell between the yellow and greenish-yellow, but definitely wasn't over 0.25 which is what it's been consistently). Cupped the fish into the new tank. Right now they're swimming around frantically, seem a bit freaked out, I'm hoping they calm down soon so they don't get sick or/and die. Would be ironic if I killed them trying to give them a better environment!

 

[librarygirl]

Fish are swimming around, seem happier (or maybe it's me thinking that they are lol). I did place the old filter on top of the new one (the new filter is twice as large as the old, so it wouldn't exactly fit in the space). I had a Marineland Eclipse Hex 5 and now I have a Marineland Eclipse 12. They both also have a Bio-wheel but couldn't move the old one over as it's too small to fit in the new one.

I have a cycling question: It's been 3 weeks and my levels are always the same (ammonia 0.25, nitrates/nitrites 0). My tap water is 0.25 ammonia; is that why the water isn't changing? I'm adding Prime whenever I do a change. I panic when I see that level of ammonia b/c I know it isn't good for the fish so I've kept up with the water changes. But again no spikes in nitrate/nitrite and no change in ammonia over the past 3 weeks. Am I doing something wrong? What amount of water change should I be doing in the new tank? I did a 50% last night after I tested the water again and the ammonia was still at 0.25; is that too much or not enough of a water change?

I'm using the API kit and I find it's hard to tell between 0 and 0.25 for the color of the readings. If I compare the ammonia 0 level color yellow on the chart to the nitrite yellow on the chart, the ammonia does seem to have the slight green tinge to it, so I don't think it's zero, but so far hasn't gone above 0.25.

Also an unrelated question:

- should the heater hold the temperature constant or is it normal to have temp fluctuations in the water? Sometimes when I check the water is warm, other times it's noticeably cooler. With the larger tank I bought a heater for the larger aquarium, a Marineland adjustable. I set the temp at 78 which is what the other tank temperature was supposed to hold as well (although I noticed temp fluctuations in the other tank as well although to me so far the larger tank seems cooler more often than it seems warm). Is this normal or is the heater defective? I don't want the fish to get sick b/c the heater isn't working properly. I do have an in-tank thermometer and it reads between 76-78 (seems to go back and forth) so I'm not sure which one is more accurate but to my hand the water is noticeably cooler much of the time.

Thanks everyone, your help is very much appreciated!

 

[waterdrop]

Hi there, sorry I missed your thread when you were deciding on the big change but it sounds like everything is ok, glad you went ahead and did it.

You are getting ammonia 3 ways. Your tap water is bringing in 0.25ppm, your fish are creating ammonia (by respiration off the gills and via waste) and every time you change water you are also getting a little ammonia addition probably because when the Prime breaks the chloramines down, ammonia is a tiny byproduct. Together, these are causing you to continue to see a little green on the test despite the water changing and the time that has gone by.

There is no real change you need to make to your actions when you have ammonia in your tap water except to consider that smaller, more frequent water changes may hold a slight advantage over fewer, larger ones. But in your case it's just going to be a waiting game, possibly over a pretty long period of weeks until one day the filter surprises you and begins to return pure yellow, giving you zero ppm readings. If what you are doing now is keeping your ammonia levels no higher than 0.25ppm and you are not seeing any nitrite levels then you are conducting the fish-in cycle correctly. The small bioload of fish you have is well matched to cycling a filter, which is very good. I would try to hold out and resist getting more fish (work on your tank decorations and planning instead) for what may be this longish period waiting for the zeros. Be aware that vigilance is still important as with a small number of small fish, the little nitrite spikes could still come (or they could pass by unnoticed unfortunately) rather late and suddenly.

It sounds like you managed to get that old pad in the filter and next to the new pad that's of similar construction but different and larger shape? If so, that's good of course. You want the already established bacteria to only have to float a short distance if they get loose from their old biofilm and you want them to then get caught in the new pad because it comes next in the flow. Just having the old pad material somehow inside the filter is the most important thing by far.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

By squeezing out the old filter in the new tank, you have given the new filter about as much of a chance as you reasonably could, unless the old and new wheels can be interchanged. If you can move over the biowheel, the new filter would be almost as far along in maturing as the old filter was.
I also have some ammonia from breaking chloramine bonds in my water. I simply ignore the ammonia that results since I figure that is why Prime is designed to deal with ammonia traces. If I have a tank that has poor water quality, it still happens on a new tank sometimes, I just do as big a water change as the fish size allows. As an example, that would mean draining a guppy tank to only 1/4 inch, 1/2 cm, water above the substrate. For a swordtail I might leave behind 3/8 inch, 1 cm, of water. A truly large water change with a decent temperature match is always welcomed by my fish when they are experiencing chemical stresses. I often call these 90% water changes but I am well aware that far less than 10% of the original water remains. I am just unable to estimate that small percentage accurately.

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks so much to you both! I'll definitely keep up with the water changes, I did a smaller one today (about 2.5 gals) and did a test about an hour afterwards and still a bit of ammonia (probably less than the full 0.25 as the color wasn't as greenish as the color on the test chart) and I'll do a larger one (6-7 gals) tomorrow. I'll change and test daily and be patient. I'm not in a rush to get more fish, I'm happy with what I have so far, they are fascinating to watch and I'm surprisingly becoming very attached to them rather quickly. I'm just more concerned about the ammonia hurting them b/c I don't want to do that, but I'm guessing if I keep changing the water and testing then hopefully they'll be OK. Thanks again, your advice is much appreciated!!

 

[waterdrop]

Your care and concern will make you a good fishkeeper.

I hope you will post back here way in the end if the filter finally changes and takes the ammonia to zero, even if it is way later. It would be interesting to hear!

~~waterdrop~~