How To Safely Lower Ph In Tank

[watertown28]

Howdy people, finally got my other 75 gallon tank cycled, and finally got me some wonderful rams. Made the external canister filter myself, works wonderful.
 
Anyways, with that said, I was now wondering how to lower the PH in the tank. Normally, I dont even test it, though I did when I first got into the hobby some years ago, and my PH on all my tanks were high... when I say high, we are talking 8.2-8.4....every.... single.... tank. Did not matter.
 
Now, as I was reading up on the stock of rams, which are 5x German Blue rams, and I got 1x Electric Blue ram ( had 6 Germans, but one was pretty much stressed too much when they got him out of the tank, and the transfer more or less put the final nail into his coffin so to say, dead in less than 24 hours....so in exchange I got the electric blue )....I noticed they prefer slightly acidic water.....as you can see I am not even close.
Now, that is not to say that they are not happy. They seem to be fully colored, fins flared full of color, and are little boogers when I try to do a water change... they show hardly no fear of my arm/hand in the water nor of the tube going around sucking up the gravel. Great personality needless to say which makes me think even more I am going to love these fish.
 
I was thinking of using some peat moss, of course, looking for a way to kinda cut costs a little, by using some stockings in the canister with peat moss. I saw some at Menards, here:
https/www.menards.com/main/outdoors/gardening/shop-all-lawn-plant-care/sphagnum-peat-moss-2-cu-ft/p-1509487-c-10116.htm
I dont think it has any additives to it... so I think it would be safe but want to double check.
 
Also, how harmful is this to do, adjusting the PH, and how hard? Is this something that I can really screw up?
 
Edit: Some specs too for testing:
0 NH3/4, 0 NO2, 20-40 NO3, water change now every other day for a week of 10%.... on my second round of that.... temp is 77F, 4 live plants, add Prime to water every change, and also some Excel CO2 for the plants, one cap full every other day, even after water change. Got one API tab for plants that you put in the gravel, 3 days ago... only one tab, mostly for the Amazon Sword plant.
 
Any help would be great.... this is a new area for me and I dont want to see the fish belly up...
 
Thanks!
 
PS.... I will post pics of the rams and the tank tomarrow... put a bit of work into it, very happy with the end results, though will be adding even more plants to it over time.

 

[NickAu]

 
Also, how harmful is this to do, adjusting the PH, and how hard? Is this something that I can really screw up?

Short of using RO ( Reverse osmosis ) water It cant be done safely or easily is the short answer.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

If you really want to do this, then you need to know what is involved. You can get the basics here http/fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html

 

[Lunar Jetman]

Personally, I wouldn't bother. Once you start you're committing yourself to time and expense to ensure it stays at the right level and based on the fact you say you want to "cut costs" I would seriously reconsider.
 
You'd be better off looking for fish that suit your local water source rather than getting the water to suit the fish you've bought.

 

[Vethian]

If the fish are not stressed and doing well, wouldn't changing the pH now put them in stress?

 

[watertown28]

Personally, I wouldn't bother. Once you start you're committing yourself to time and expense to ensure it stays at the right level and based on the fact you say you want to "cut costs" I would seriously reconsider.
 
You'd be better off looking for fish that suit your local water source rather than getting the water to suit the fish you've bought.

Well, as for cost, I understand that sometimes you cant.... its just a way to see if there was a possibility of doing so.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

If the fish are not stressed and doing well, wouldn't changing the pH now put them in stress?

 
Yes.  Fish can handle changes in pH and hardness, but it needs to be done slowly.  In this case, I think its best to leave things as they are and add a bit of almond leaves, a little peat to the tank, maybe some driftwood... all these things together will have an effect, but minimal.  
 
These fish likely are not wild caught, and are likely quite acclimated to their 'home' water, which isn't the same as where their wild brethren live.  To adjust it to match their 'native' water might increase their life expectancy, if done properly, slowly, and held consistent... but there are dangers, and it is not something that I would recommend for someone new to fish keeping.  Best to learn how to keep one's tank conditions stable with values that are close to one's tap water conditions... and then after mastering that one could stretch trying to maintain 'artificial' water conditions that match specific criteria.  

 

Personally, I wouldn't bother. Once you start you're committing yourself to time and expense to ensure it stays at the right level and based on the fact you say you want to "cut costs" I would seriously reconsider.
 
You'd be better off looking for fish that suit your local water source rather than getting the water to suit the fish you've bought.

Well, as for cost, I understand that sometimes you cant.... its just a way to see if there was a possibility of doing so.
 

 
 
It is definitely possible.  As pointed out RO is the best way.  But, RO will become expensive if you are buying it from your LFS by the gallon.  It becomes cheaper if you buy your own unit, but that requires TIME.  
 
Peat, almond leaves, driftwood, etc. will all soften and lower the water slightly but not significantly for the price.  They have to first overcome the buffering capacity (kH) of the water, before they can lower the pH.  Using RO will lower the kH and pH at the same time, and then adding the organics will have a larger impact.  
 
 
It is possible, but as pointed out above, not advisable for someone new to the fish keeping world.  It would be an advanced topic.  And while some can jump in the deep end without a problem, others will make some mistakes along the way and the fish will be the ones to pay the price.  So, from my experience, I'd say its best to stick to the basics for a while, learn how to maintain your water conditions matching your tap... then after a year or so, if you can maintain the water without an issue, then you can look into the more advanced stuff.  

 

[FishNChimps]

Your pH sounds like mine. I've put up with it for years, with the result being that my stocking has been restricted to tolerant species only, like mollies.
 
I've tried peat and almond leaves (which my 6 y/o plec seems to enjoy nibbling), to no great effect.
 
I'm currently lowering my pH by buying RO water from my local fish store, at just under £4 for 25 litres. That strikes me as very cheap, so it's probably worth you seeing if you can buy it cheap locally too. So far, so good, with mixing tap water with RO to give me a range of 7.3-7.5, with zero deaths from restocking.

 

[watertown28]

 

If the fish are not stressed and doing well, wouldn't changing the pH now put them in stress?

 
Yes.  Fish can handle changes in pH and hardness, but it needs to be done slowly.  In this case, I think its best to leave things as they are and add a bit of almond leaves, a little peat to the tank, maybe some driftwood... all these things together will have an effect, but minimal.  
 
These fish likely are not wild caught, and are likely quite acclimated to their 'home' water, which isn't the same as where their wild brethren live.  To adjust it to match their 'native' water might increase their life expectancy, if done properly, slowly, and held consistent... but there are dangers, and it is not something that I would recommend for someone new to fish keeping.  Best to learn how to keep one's tank conditions stable with values that are close to one's tap water conditions... and then after mastering that one could stretch trying to maintain 'artificial' water conditions that match specific criteria.  

 


Personally, I wouldn't bother. Once you start you're committing yourself to time and expense to ensure it stays at the right level and based on the fact you say you want to "cut costs" I would seriously reconsider.
 
You'd be better off looking for fish that suit your local water source rather than getting the water to suit the fish you've bought.

Well, as for cost, I understand that sometimes you cant.... its just a way to see if there was a possibility of doing so.
 

 
 
It is definitely possible.  As pointed out RO is the best way.  But, RO will become expensive if you are buying it from your LFS by the gallon.  It becomes cheaper if you buy your own unit, but that requires TIME.  
 
Peat, almond leaves, driftwood, etc. will all soften and lower the water slightly but not significantly for the price.  They have to first overcome the buffering capacity (kH) of the water, before they can lower the pH.  Using RO will lower the kH and pH at the same time, and then adding the organics will have a larger impact.  
 
 
It is possible, but as pointed out above, not advisable for someone new to the fish keeping world.  It would be an advanced topic.  And while some can jump in the deep end without a problem, others will make some mistakes along the way and the fish will be the ones to pay the price.  So, from my experience, I'd say its best to stick to the basics for a while, learn how to maintain your water conditions matching your tap... then after a year or so, if you can maintain the water without an issue, then you can look into the more advanced stuff.  
 


Well , I am not "new" so to say, think I am going on my 4th or 5th year now fish keeping, just the PH was something I never really gave a second thought to. As I said, I first started testing when I got into the hobby, but the PH was always on the high end with every tank, fish never seemed to die or suffer outside of the ick outbreak I have had or natural causes.... heck, I even got a few fish to breed.... even if by mistake.
 
I think I am ready for more of the complexities of fish keeping, and thought that the PH thing would be a great start. I have started to understand some of it, like how hardness and all that stuff affects the PH...

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Well , I am not "new" so to say, think I am going on my 4th or 5th year now fish keeping, just the PH was something I never really gave a second thought to. As I said, I first started testing when I got into the hobby, but the PH was always on the high end with every tank, fish never seemed to die or suffer outside of the ick outbreak I have had or natural causes.... heck, I even got a few fish to breed.... even if by mistake.
 
I think I am ready for more of the complexities of fish keeping, and thought that the PH thing would be a great start. I have started to understand some of it, like how hardness and all that stuff affects the PH...

 
 Apologies.  I should have checked your join date!  
 
In the case that you are ready to start exploring lowering your pH... the RO route is the most effective way to lower hardness and pH in your situation.  Then you can use additives like peat to soften and acidify the water more thoroughly.  
 
The link TTA provided is a good starting point and includes this recommendation: 

Peat moss softens water and reduces its hardness (GH). The most effective way to soften water via peat is to aerate water for 1-2 weeks in a bucket containing peat moss. For example, get a (plastic) bucket of the appropriate size. Then, get a large quantity of peat (a gallon or more), boil it (so that it sinks), stuff it in a pillow case, and place it in the water bucket. Use an air pump to aerate it. In 1-2 weeks, the water will be softer and more acidic. Use this aged water when making partial water changes on your tank.

 

[Byron]

I will just expand upon a couple of points already mentioned, but they are crucial to understand.  And the first is that pH is not "stand alone," but only a part of a relationship also involving general hardness (GH) and carbonate hardness (KH, sometimes termed Alkalinity).  You must know the GH and KH of your source water before any attempt is even considered to alter the pH, as these (particularly the KH) can make pH adjustment next to impossible.
 
The hardness actually is the more important in many respects for fish too.  Some have very specific requirements when it comes to the dissolved mineral salts in the water.  The article TTA linked goes into this, please read it.
 
The other point I wish to emphasize is that once you start adjusting water parameters it is almost always a continual effort.  While you can certain dilute hard water with "pure" water (RO, distilled, even rainwater sometimes works well) in an aquarium, performing water changes means having to use adjusted water, and this can be quite the effort.  It is much easier to raise GH/pH than it is to lower it.
 
Final comment on the blue ram.  The original natural species, Mikrogeophagus ramirezi, will only be encountered if you purchase fish that are imported from South America.  The various varieties, including the German Blue, Electric Blue, Gold, etc, are all man-made varieties from this species and thus commercially raised, usually in large tanks or outdoor ponds.  Without going into the physiological aspects, suffice it to say that years of this have made changes to the fish.  Knowing the parameters of the breeder's water and copying that would be better than assuming something else.  But, having said that, chances are the breeder's water parameters will be closer to your water than vastly different, though this is admittedly an assumption.
 
Byron.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Just as an fyi here. I have actually run tanks where I have radically altered the parameters vs my tap. This involved lowerimg everything but especially TDS and pH. This was done to enable me to keep fish which come out of waters with a pH in the low 4s and almost no TDS.  My well water currently has the following parameters:
 
pH 7.0 - 7.1
TDS 83 - 57 ppm. (Normally it is 83 but when we get a lot of rain it can drop to under 60.
GH 4-5 dg
KH 3-4 dg
 
Here is what I use to create the parameters I need (this does not include what I do to stain the water.):
 
Primary-

• RO/DI unit
• Muriatic Acid

 
Secondary-

• Catappa leaves- replaced every other week.
• Alder cones- in a bag in one of the filters. When its completely mush, they are replaced (about every 2 months)
• Peat- used occasionallyin the same bag as the alder cones. (When I add it the amount is usually only a few tablespoons.)

 
Specialized Equipment-

• Three way continuous monitor for temperature, pH and conductivity/TDS.
• TDS/Temp pocket tester for spot use.

Here is my water changing routine on a 55 gal. tank:

1. Batched RO/DI water is made and stored in containers.
2. 20 gals of changing water is prepared using 50/50 RO/DI and my tap at 82-83 F.
3. The probes for the continuous monitor are moved from the tank to the 20 gal. can so I can read the replacement water parameters to assure they are as required.
4. The 50/50 mix gets me the desired replacement water TDS, but the pH will be adjusted using muriatic acid. The pH level needed is based on how much the tank pH has moved up since the last water change. This is now usually somewhere between 5.8 and 6.0 (The tank has been moved from the initial 4.2 pH to the 6.5 range I now maintain over about 14 months.)
5. To the water I add a bit of Kent Black Water Expert and then brewed rooibos tea (this will not soften water or lower pH, it stains the water well and it provides a number of health benefits).

This should give folks some idea about what is involved in altering parameters to the down side. Going the other way is usually a lot easier since the fish wanting higher pH usually need higher TDS whereas acid water fish need very low TDS. It is easier to add things to water than it is to remove them. When it comes to hardness, alkalinity and pH, it is almost impossible to change only one of these parameters and not affect the others as well. So you are not really changing one thing, you are changing 3 or more. When I add muriatic acid to lower the pH, it also acts to raise the TDS/conductivity which is another reason why I need the RO/DI. Not only is it lowering the TDS but it is also lowering the KH which must be done to be able to lower the pH and have it stay there a while.
 
I should mention that I have wanted the fish I keep in this tank since my early days of keeping fish. It took me over 11 years in the hobby having 15-20 tanks for a good part of those years before I was even willing to try this. One reason is the costs involved. You need to spend a bunch of money and have no guarantee that you can pull things off in a stable fashion.
 
I can tell you that due to health issues from late 2013 into the summer of 2014 I was unable to care for my tanks properly for a bit over 6 months. The two tanks I had with these fish contained about 25 assorted size healthy fish in them. I now have only 4 left and they have taken many many months to get back to looking close to how they should. Once one goes down the road of changing parameters downward, it is essential to do one's weekly maintenance or the result can be a real disaster.

 

[andyG44]

I also tried using RO water to lower the TDS and the pH. On the small tank (180 lt) it is just about doable by generating and storing RO water in large containers days before the water change.
 
On the large tank (350 lt) it is impossible to use the home made RO - I would need a week's preparation and more 25lt containers  (considering others in the house also use the kitchen where the RO is).
 
But the killer is not the planned water changes but an emergency situation where you need to make a water change immediately. In that case you will have no RO water to hand and your only immediate source of water will be the tap.
 
So getting your fish accustomed to lower pH and TDS is asking for trouble if an emergency water change is needed in the future. Planning ahead I had "stored" 3 25 lt containers, which are not easy to carry around and keep out of the way. Completely unworkable.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Space matters in all things. I have a portable 3 stage ro/di unit. It is rated for 75 gpd but realistically using just tap pressure I get about half that unless I push it. Then I get another 12-15 gpd. I can store about 38 gals. The tank involved is only a 55 gal.
 
But if you cannot maintain the needed water on hand, its is quite risky changing parameters. Keep fish that will thrive in your tap is regularly heard and seen advice advice for a good reason.

 

[watertown28]

Alright, First things first, I will let a bucket sit aerated with a bubble for 24 hours and then test it. A clean 5 gallon bucket should do the trick right?
 
As for space, got plenty of it. I could store a 55 gallon barrel or 2 if need be. As for the costs, I guess a real reason to do so was what I was looking for. I mean if its something that is worthwhile then I could do it. Just a matter of hooking it up somehow, which cant be any worse than what I have lugging a hose around that I hooked up to the washer hot and cold water outlets already

 
Also, per the volume of water ( granted, it would be only say, 2 or 3 55 gallon tanks and a 75 gallon for sure, maybe if all goes well I could do the other 75 gallon also ) I could always use a pump of some sorts to pump the water out of the container into the tanks as needed.
 
O yeah , also will confirm that my water is hard water.... very hard water... so I am sure that in itself provides plenty of buffer for higher PHs..uggg.