How Much Is Too Much Filtration?

[fatheadminnow]

Is there such a thing as too much?
I have got some long awaited much researched keyhole cichlids and they are a couple of inches each, this is bigger fish than I've had before and they are sharing a 50 gallon with a fluval 405 but thinking should i add another? I know it's already really over filtrated but the size of their poo is shocking lol! The amount of decor in the tank doesn't allow for thorough poo removal by net or syphon alone and being a corner tank I wanted both corners of the tank to have intake, which would mean 2 filters. What do you think?

I would suggest you are running, under 5x turnover with this filter and tank. so, adequately filtered. but far from over filtered. my tank has two filters. 1x Eheim 2224 and 1x Hydor prime 30. total boxed, flow, claims for the filters is 1700lph. real flow is closer to 900-1000lph. that gives my 50 gallon, 5x, just.
the problem with using a "box claim" is, you have no real idea how much flow you have. often someone who claims 2000lph will, in truth, have a lot less. possibly up to 60% less. so where does that leave the "recommended flow?"

Yes, but the 5x turn over, which would be the minimum, takes in account the loss in efficiency that filters/power heads may have. If a filter claims it can produce 500GPH, the "table" we use to find an adequate turn over rate takes this into account. So, by going by the manufacture claimed GPH, and say you want 10x, then you will be just fine by going by that claim.

It's confusing a bit, say for example the fluval 405 says its rated for 400 litre tanks, if you have one on a 400 litre tank, isn't that 1 X turnover? I am such a girl sometimes, I realise that

It should say somewhere on teh box, or you can look it up, what the LPH (liters per hours) is of your filter. Fo a 400 liter tank the filter probably does about 3-4x turn over.

-FHM

 

[AdAndrews]

yeeees! ^^

what the manufacturer claims is irrelivant, having said that looking at the litres per hour statement alone isnt all that accurate, seen as thats just the output of the pump alone, not taking into consideration media, filth, pipes, and connections that all slow thing down.. my 600lph external is probably doing 300lph at most.

 

[MermaidMel]

So in short running 2 X 405's on 50 gallon tank isn't even over filtering the tank?
I wouldn't run any more than that, simply because there isn't the space

 

[fatheadminnow]

Yeah, you will be just fine with those 2 filters.

-FHM

 

[MermaidMel]

Thanks again everyone for your responses

 

[raptorrex]

yeeees! ^^

what the manufacturer claims is irrelivant, having said that looking at the litres per hour statement alone isnt all that accurate, seen as thats just the output of the pump alone, not taking into consideration media, filth, pipes, and connections that all slow thing down.. my 600lph external is probably doing 300lph at most.

my point exactly. the flow rates are "stories". in most cases, not very true ones at that. though its not true to say that the filters state "pump" flow only, though some do. others use some form of media, for the tests. whichever case, the rates are, at best guesses. which is odd, if you think of the conversation we are having, ATM, on water changes. where people go to minute lengths with those, but guess at, possibly, the most important part of keeping fish healthy.

measuring the flow of your filter is not too difficult. take a container and time how long it takes to fill (2l is enough). weigh the result, multiply the time and you get a, good, gage of your real flow.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Thanks again everyone for your responses

Just make sure to try to aim them in such a way that you will have adequate amount of water movement throughout the entire tank.

-FHM

 

[fatheadminnow]

yeeees! ^^

what the manufacturer claims is irrelivant, having said that looking at the litres per hour statement alone isnt all that accurate, seen as thats just the output of the pump alone, not taking into consideration media, filth, pipes, and connections that all slow thing down.. my 600lph external is probably doing 300lph at most.

my point exactly. the flow rates are "stories". in most cases, not very true ones at that. though its not true to say that the filters state "pump" flow only, though some do. others use some form of media, for the tests. whichever case, the rates are, at best guesses. which is odd, if you think of the conversation we are having, ATM, on water changes. where people go to minute lengths with those, but guess at, possibly, the most important part of keeping fish healthy.

measuring the flow of your filter is not too difficult. take a container and time how long it takes to fill (2l is enough). weigh the result, multiply the time and you get a, good, gage of your real flow.

Yes, you are right, and this is what we are talking about right now. That the flow rates are just really "guesses," that's a good way to put it. Some manufactures, more likely most, will test the flow rate of their product without any media in the filter. This number would obviously decrease when there is resistance introduced to the flow; filter media. Luckily, for the most part, the 5x turn over rate, and so forth with other turn over rates, take this "decrease" into account.

So, if you go by the manufacture claimed flow rates, and try to get lets say a 10x turn over, then you should be just fine. But there are other means you can take to fins an even more accurate flow rate by what what said above.

-FHM

 

[AdAndrews]

no, the flow rate isnt a guess... its the actual rate that the pump supplied will work at, just the pump, with no connections at all, not the basket full of water, nothing.

 

[fatheadminnow]

no, the flow rate isnt a guess... its the actual rate that the pump supplied will work at, just the pump, with no connections at all, not the basket full of water, nothing.

What we mean by a "guess" is not that the manufacture guesses what the flow rate is, because if you read what I said later on I explain how they get their flow rate numbers. But over time, the filter is affected by many things, which would make it a "guess" so to speak, as we would not know the exact flow rate anymore. Even if a filter is properly maintained, the motor itself is not going to perform like new a couple years down the road.

-FHM

 

[AdAndrews]

thats becuase of cheap manufacturing.

 

[fatheadminnow]

thats becuase of cheap manufacturing.

I agree with you!

All in all, I think we came to a relative conclusion on this matter!

-FHM

 

[AdAndrews]

 

[Ryandsimmons]

Looking at my Fluval 125 tank, that comes with a Fluval U3 filter rated at 90-150 litre tank it seems woefully underpowered going by this thread. At 600 litres an hour that is only a 4x turnover, and that is without it slowing down after a few months use.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Looking at my Fluval 125 tank, that comes with a Fluval U3 filter rated at 90-150 litre tank it seems woefully underpowered going by this thread. At 600 litres an hour that is only a 4x turnover, and that is without it slowing down after a few months use.

Yeah, you might want to increase the turn over rate a little bit. With a higher turn over rate your filter can then process accidents in the tank a little faster. Lets say for some reason you have an ammonia spike, well a higher turn over rated filter is going to cope with that better then a filter with with a lower turn over rate.

-FHM