How Do I Find A Co2 Dealer?

According to wikipedia you are correct but sometimes I question the information provided on there.

However, saying that it is correct:
1psi = ~.068atm so I'm sure it is quite possible. I'm not sure of the exact psi of a full 5lb co2 cylinder so i can check this when I get home after work. Also keep in mind that psi changes depending on the temperature of the gas and tank and also how full it actually is.
 
I checked about 50 sources this morning because I was looking at other stuff anyway (including american chemical society).. it's all very obvious, and yes, the pressure range is quite large as you run through typical temperatures the cylinder could possibly be exposed to. For the same fill, you could run from, say, 800psi when cooler to 2000psi if it got really hot. There might be something like 30% (looking at volume of just the physical area inside the tank) in the liquid state in a "filled" bottle it looks like.

~~waterdrop~~
 
You also have to keep in mind, it has to be at 5atm and below a certain temperature.

My tank is at room temperature at 1100psi and it's been running for ~10 hours since swapped and connected.
 
Oh, so you're up and running now with your new equipment?

Did you try waving it around with your ear to it to listen for sloshing? :fun:

~~waterdrop~~
 
Haha no, I was too worried about doing something wrong. Plus where I have my tank I will only be removing and replacing it when I swap them out at the local welding supply.

I want to say that the only time itcwould be a liquid is when it's super cold after a fill. After it reaches room temperature however I think it converts right back to a gas. I'm not sure of the temp boundries.
 
I just can't reply, apparently I am to stupid to comment on this subject.
 
I just can't reply, apparently I am to stupid to comment on this subject.

Haha don't worry, I didn't know I knew this much about co2 haha.

The critical point of co2 is at 7.38MPa at a temp of 31.1*C.

At this point, liquid and gaseous forms of co2 can coexist and there isn't really a boundary between them.

With this information I did some math(correct me if I'm wrong):

1psi = ~.068atm. | 1atm = ~101,325Pa.

If my tank is at 1100psi = ~566917.428MPa. Which is far too great right?

I've also read that co2 gas changes from a gas to a liquid at room temperature at 870psi. I don't know if it has to be this exact pressure, but if my tank is at room temp and at 74.8atm, why isn't it a liquid? There has tobe some other factors that us non-chemists don't know about this haha. I suppose it is possible the pressure is too high or the temp might not quite be room temperature inside the tank. But then again, why doesn't it change to a liquid during the filling process since it's so cold. :p

I think we got ourselves into more than we bargained for WD. :D
 
I wonder if it is filled as a gas how can we get 5 pounds of it into a little bottle? Maybe it is just that dense, not sure.
 
We use Helium, Oxygen, and Nitrogen at work, all three are shipped via tractor trailer in the liquid form and stored in our tank farm in the liquid form. We do not use CO2 at our facility so I just can't say but I highly dought that it has strange and unique properties about it.
 
We use Helium, Oxygen, and Nitrogen at work, all three are shipped via tractor trailer in the liquid form and stored in our tank farm in the liquid form. We do not use CO2 at our facility so I just can't say but I highly dought that it has strange and unique properties about it.

it does though. Unless it is kept under a certain amount of pressure as the the temperature changes, there is no liquid form and it goes from a solid directly to a gas and visa versa depending on the temp.
 
IT is under pressure, that is why the liquid form.

You know that it is used for instantanious freezing, so the properties are the same.
 
I know what you mean about the complications all getting out of hand when you are a non-chemist and just want to know some practical stuff but also want to delve deeply and understand (actually I -do- have a chemistry degree, among others, but I'm not a chemist and it mostly seems useless a lot of the time, :lol:) I consider part of my entertainment within the hobby to be these little learning episodes in areas that are foreign to me, so I'm getting myself into them all the time.

OK, so to repeat, I've seen references off and on over the last 3 years about there being some CO2 in the liquid state, but most of it being in the gaseous state within the pressurized bottle and I've seen still more refs to this in my reading the last couple days.

One of the most interesting angles to come at it with I think is this one (sorry to keep repeating wikipedia ones (A lot of the pages I've been looking at are commercial bottled gas places and stuff but..)).. it's the "Bottled Gas" page on wikipedia. What's interesting is that it shows that CO2 can bottled in both Case 2 and Case 4 scenerios (as you'll see by reading their chart) and it makes sense to me that CO2 simply happens to cross the boundary where if you want/need to store a lot more of it and can spend more (these would probably be commercial type situations) you can use a Dewer Flask type of solution (vacuum space between double shells) and combine both greater cold and pressure to store more CO2 (this is a Case 4 solution) whereas the things we planted tank enthusiasts do is always a Case 2 solution where ultimately much less gas is stored and it is in our tank and straddles the boundary line such that there is a smaller percentage of it in the liquid state in the bottom of the cylinder but most of the space above is in the gas state. When gas is allowed to exit the cylinder by the regulator, more of the CO2 that's in the liquid state moves over to the gaseous state. When the cylinder is first filled there is more in the liquid state (still something less than half) but towards the end of it's use there will be no more liquid but still a lot of gas under pressure. One of the limitations for paintballers is that when they shoot a lot, a lot of gas will go out with each short burst and then since the pressure is lowered, more gas boils off the liquid, causing the whole cylinder to go cold and if they do that enough they have less umph because of the temporary cold I believe. (It's funny how you end up reading web pages from aquascaping, paintballing, beer making, welding, construction and science, lol.)

Again, if you look at that CO2 state chart on the wiki CO2 page, you can see that our typical household temperatures (between freezing and 100F for instance) are right there in the liquid CO2 range (the temps are Kelvin but you can convert) and I believe the pressures (in Bars) are well within the ranges of pressures we can do within the strong cylinders (although I admit I get dizzy when I do enough of these conversions between atms, bars, pAs, psis and all while trying to jump back and forth between different refs that tell what pressures people have in their gas bottles, lol.)

~~waterdrop~~
 
I agree. I think it got to the point where there were so many ideas and stuff being bounced around that I kind of lost track of it all haha.
 
Ok, thanks for hanging with me on it for a while guys. I've been off on the usual new years trip and didn't dig into CO2 any more during it (instead I got sidetracked trying to understand "lens speed" and "aperature" and putting more understanding behind why a better lens focusing light through a wider aperature onto a camera with a bigger sensor will do a better job showing off a tank than a slower lens exposing a smaller sensor will.. :lol: ) WD
 

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