OP
OP
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
Does this help?
Holy Moley- is it possible???????
- Thread starter TwoTankAmin
- Start date
Looks like a small clown loach to me - what does it look like to you ? Hum - seriously fish does have a picture of a dension barb fry BUT in that picture the blacklines do not go all the way down like they do in that picture but who knows for sure. I guess another 4 months and you will know for sure
fishorama
Fish Addict
Maybe you have both loach & barb fry? Your 1st pic looked more loach shaped with a very downward mouth & curved forehead shape. Your latest pic looks more like the seriously fish barb pics, a more forward mouth & barblike head shape & coloring. Bigger looking eyes in the last too. Hard to say since seriously doesn't tell what size the barb fry are to compare with yours. The smallest clowns I've seen were over an inch.
Maybe your bro can set up his phone to remotely take pics while no scary people are near. A video would be very cool too, also possible with a smart phone I think. Try leaving him some fruit & nut snacks to encourage him to help, lol.
Either species or both, I hope for more pics often. A testament to your "magic" well water & your good husbandry.
Maybe your bro can set up his phone to remotely take pics while no scary people are near. A video would be very cool too, also possible with a smart phone I think. Try leaving him some fruit & nut snacks to encourage him to help, lol.
Either species or both, I hope for more pics often. A testament to your "magic" well water & your good husbandry.
You're only going to know if you raise them. I think that's a densison's barb, but.
Forget the markings and look at the shape. That said, it's 50% I'm wrong.
Forget the markings and look at the shape. That said, it's 50% I'm wrong.
OP
OP
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
I do not use a smart phone and my digicam is older. I never learned how to shoot vids with it. My brother only got a smart phone in the last year. I hear him cursing a lot when he uses it.
I am OK with the camera for the reasons I use it. I have lots of good pics but they are usually taken in much smaller tanks/set-ups. In fact I size the fish I sell using a specimen box with a grid under it. I measure the fish down to he 1/8 inch this way. As you can see, the image is pretty clear.
I often print out the pic and then getting the exact size is simple. Those squares are one square inch. There are 8 divisions breaking the big square into 1/8 inch segments. So, if I then measure a fish to get the total length, I can then place the ruler on the grid and it tells me the exact length. If the fish cooperate and line up properly I can size without having yo use a ruler. The fish in the lower left of the above pic is 1.75 in. TL The box on the left end id only 4.3 inch and the nose of the fish is slightly over the left end as his nose goes up the side a bit. Its tail is just short of the 1 inch line. Having done this sort of measuring a lot, I know if I straightened out the fish it would be 1.75 inches.
As you can see the pictures is clear and in focus. But this is a lot different than trying to shoot a 1/2 to 3/4 in. fry in a 125 gal tank where that fry almost never stops moving. But the time I can get it in focus when it pauses it has moved most of the time. Also the lighting is not designed for taking pics it is designed to be right for the plants etc. in the tank. Btw the fish in the measuring box are Hypancistrus L173.
if I could catch themystery fry in the 125, I could get better pics. But. I am pretty sure the babies are not being eaten. I spotted one in the main area of the task this morning in the few minutes I spent looking. it looks like the fry are managing to evade that danger or else the fish are not interested in eating fry, So I am hoping time is on my side here. There are also many babies behind the divider. I opened a way in and out at the bottom of the foam. None of the big fish in the tank can get through it.
As for parameters - my tap water is generally in the 7.0 pH range and the water is soft. However, the parameters are subject to change as the result of rainfall amounts in the more recent past. I have measured the TDS from the tap as low as 53 ppm during times of excessive rains and snow. But during periods of drought the TDS can rise into the 115-120 ppm range. Similarly. if have seen the pH being close to 6.8 and as high as 7.3. However, the changes are not usually rapid, the occur over months when they happen. But under normal conditions they will be pretty steady at pH 7.0 and TDS of 83 ppm. I run the temp in the clown tank in the 78-80F range, I know this is on the high side for the redlines. But they seem to do OK. I got my very first ones in about 2005. Ever since I have had a group in at least one tank. I think I am on my third group at this time. The last two were imports I got when picking up from the transshipper for Rachel O. aka msjinkzd
I have had clowns since 2003 but not all of what I have today were acquired then. I have had ttoo many at times and sent some to fishy friends. I have also lost a couple over the years. But the two I know would be the spawners I have had almost that long.
I will continue trying to get decent pictures. The bigger the fish get the easier that will become. I will keep posting in this thread until the situation of what species is resolved. The problme her is we are dealing with a 5 goot planted community tanks and when I am ctively trying to breed a species it is always in a mych smaller tank and it will only hold the sungle species. When I need to catch fish I will first use a poret sheet to dived the tank. That way a 20L is two 15 inch wide spaced and a 33L becomes a pair of 2 foot tanks. it makes things a lot easier that way.
I am OK with the camera for the reasons I use it. I have lots of good pics but they are usually taken in much smaller tanks/set-ups. In fact I size the fish I sell using a specimen box with a grid under it. I measure the fish down to he 1/8 inch this way. As you can see, the image is pretty clear.
I often print out the pic and then getting the exact size is simple. Those squares are one square inch. There are 8 divisions breaking the big square into 1/8 inch segments. So, if I then measure a fish to get the total length, I can then place the ruler on the grid and it tells me the exact length. If the fish cooperate and line up properly I can size without having yo use a ruler. The fish in the lower left of the above pic is 1.75 in. TL The box on the left end id only 4.3 inch and the nose of the fish is slightly over the left end as his nose goes up the side a bit. Its tail is just short of the 1 inch line. Having done this sort of measuring a lot, I know if I straightened out the fish it would be 1.75 inches.
As you can see the pictures is clear and in focus. But this is a lot different than trying to shoot a 1/2 to 3/4 in. fry in a 125 gal tank where that fry almost never stops moving. But the time I can get it in focus when it pauses it has moved most of the time. Also the lighting is not designed for taking pics it is designed to be right for the plants etc. in the tank. Btw the fish in the measuring box are Hypancistrus L173.
if I could catch themystery fry in the 125, I could get better pics. But. I am pretty sure the babies are not being eaten. I spotted one in the main area of the task this morning in the few minutes I spent looking. it looks like the fry are managing to evade that danger or else the fish are not interested in eating fry, So I am hoping time is on my side here. There are also many babies behind the divider. I opened a way in and out at the bottom of the foam. None of the big fish in the tank can get through it.
As for parameters - my tap water is generally in the 7.0 pH range and the water is soft. However, the parameters are subject to change as the result of rainfall amounts in the more recent past. I have measured the TDS from the tap as low as 53 ppm during times of excessive rains and snow. But during periods of drought the TDS can rise into the 115-120 ppm range. Similarly. if have seen the pH being close to 6.8 and as high as 7.3. However, the changes are not usually rapid, the occur over months when they happen. But under normal conditions they will be pretty steady at pH 7.0 and TDS of 83 ppm. I run the temp in the clown tank in the 78-80F range, I know this is on the high side for the redlines. But they seem to do OK. I got my very first ones in about 2005. Ever since I have had a group in at least one tank. I think I am on my third group at this time. The last two were imports I got when picking up from the transshipper for Rachel O. aka msjinkzd
I have had clowns since 2003 but not all of what I have today were acquired then. I have had ttoo many at times and sent some to fishy friends. I have also lost a couple over the years. But the two I know would be the spawners I have had almost that long.
I will continue trying to get decent pictures. The bigger the fish get the easier that will become. I will keep posting in this thread until the situation of what species is resolved. The problme her is we are dealing with a 5 goot planted community tanks and when I am ctively trying to breed a species it is always in a mych smaller tank and it will only hold the sungle species. When I need to catch fish I will first use a poret sheet to dived the tank. That way a 20L is two 15 inch wide spaced and a 33L becomes a pair of 2 foot tanks. it makes things a lot easier that way.
OP
OP
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
By way of a quick update. The fry which escaped to the main tank seem to be doing OK. I spotted 4 of them all at once today and they looked to be in good shape. There are still more behind the Poret divider. I have not seen any of the dig fish try to or actually eat any of the fry. The ones in the main area dive into cover pretty fast if one of the larger fish gets close. They pretty much hang in the middle of the tank in the pile of wood and rocks.
I have no idea how many may still be hanging pot in the protected area. What i am seeing is they are grazing on the algae covered rocks. So they are not going hungry. I am dropping fry food in the small area but it would be a waste doing the is the rest of the tank. I am feeding flake and assorted sinking sticks in the main tank and I am thinking there may be scraps or fine pieces of flake that they can get.
The clowns eat everything and the redlines eat the flake. What does have me a bit worried is in the feeding frenzy if a fry is out it may get snapped up unintentionally.
I still cannot determine which species they are so far. I am rooting for it being clowns.
I have no idea how many may still be hanging pot in the protected area. What i am seeing is they are grazing on the algae covered rocks. So they are not going hungry. I am dropping fry food in the small area but it would be a waste doing the is the rest of the tank. I am feeding flake and assorted sinking sticks in the main tank and I am thinking there may be scraps or fine pieces of flake that they can get.
The clowns eat everything and the redlines eat the flake. What does have me a bit worried is in the feeding frenzy if a fry is out it may get snapped up unintentionally.
I still cannot determine which species they are so far. I am rooting for it being clowns.
OP
OP
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
I got a few somewhat better shots. I am seeing orange starting to show in the fry. I am hoping this means they are clowns.
So many of the fry left the safe area for the main tank are and are still there that I decided to start removing the barrier between the two par6s of the tank. I took out the stuff on top so there is about 3 inches of open water at the top. I will pull the big sheet next week. This is the weekend of my fish club's public auction. I will be working tomorrow bagging plants, shrimp and snails. I need to be doing this later in the day. But I also have to fill out the auction sheet with the listings and deal with some hard goods.
I need to arrive at the auction pretty early in the morning as I volunteered to help in any way the can use me except for being a runner. I also need to get my items into the areas appropriate for them during the viewing period.
Anyhow, here are some new pics of the fry.
So many of the fry left the safe area for the main tank are and are still there that I decided to start removing the barrier between the two par6s of the tank. I took out the stuff on top so there is about 3 inches of open water at the top. I will pull the big sheet next week. This is the weekend of my fish club's public auction. I will be working tomorrow bagging plants, shrimp and snails. I need to be doing this later in the day. But I also have to fill out the auction sheet with the listings and deal with some hard goods.
I need to arrive at the auction pretty early in the morning as I volunteered to help in any way the can use me except for being a runner. I also need to get my items into the areas appropriate for them during the viewing period.
Anyhow, here are some new pics of the fry.
fishorama
Fish Addict
I know you want them to be clowns, I do too. But those last pics look more like denisoni barbs. Not a disappointment in any way, just my opinion as of right now.
Your very 1st pic looked more clown-like than the last pics. I'm still hoping for both!
Keep taking pics! We want more!
Your very 1st pic looked more clown-like than the last pics. I'm still hoping for both!
Keep taking pics! We want more!
These last pics definitely do look more barb than loach, but it’s fascinating either way!
OP
OP
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
I headed over to Planetcatfish last night and posted a thread about this thread. I provided a link to here so that folks could see my pics. This morning I had two replies over there, Both of them said the fish are redlines. It was pointed out the fish were free swimming on open water and that would mean they are barbs. Loaches should be staying near the bottom.
The only thing I would note is that most of the fry are behind the barrier and they are mostly on the ricks of on the barrier itself. So I still have a small glimmer of hope that they are clowns. But I am grasping as straws here I think. Clown babies would have been truly amazing, But redlines are nothing to turn my nose up at.
I still can not figure out why they have not been eaten by either the clowns or the barbs both of which could eat them all and still be hungry.
The one thing I have not figured out is where the eggs were before the fish hatched out. The one thing I had done slightly wrong was to set up the original 75 gal. tank then the 150 and now the 125 with the largerrounded river pebbles instead of sand. I know the Google AI can get things pretty wrong, but I asked it this anyhow: "when redline barbs spawn, where do the eggs end up?" and here is the answer that I got back"
When the fry first appeared they were all at the far left end of the tanks around a setup of rocks, wood a huge cave at the rear of is with big piece of slate on top of it and atop the slate was a bushy Java fern. This area is directly below the spraybar return from the canister. It is a somewhat dead area for flow. But the direction of the spray bar moves the water across the tank away from that end.
But I am not qualified to disagree with the two posters on Planetcatfish. Here is what they posted:
The change of appearance for the denisonii young I had already learned as you can see from one of my posts earlier in the thread. I guess my thinking was too much wishful thinking and I really wanting them to be clowns.
The only thing I would note is that most of the fry are behind the barrier and they are mostly on the ricks of on the barrier itself. So I still have a small glimmer of hope that they are clowns. But I am grasping as straws here I think. Clown babies would have been truly amazing, But redlines are nothing to turn my nose up at.
I still can not figure out why they have not been eaten by either the clowns or the barbs both of which could eat them all and still be hungry.
The one thing I have not figured out is where the eggs were before the fish hatched out. The one thing I had done slightly wrong was to set up the original 75 gal. tank then the 150 and now the 125 with the largerrounded river pebbles instead of sand. I know the Google AI can get things pretty wrong, but I asked it this anyhow: "when redline barbs spawn, where do the eggs end up?" and here is the answer that I got back"
When the fry first appeared they were all at the far left end of the tanks around a setup of rocks, wood a huge cave at the rear of is with big piece of slate on top of it and atop the slate was a bushy Java fern. This area is directly below the spraybar return from the canister. It is a somewhat dead area for flow. But the direction of the spray bar moves the water across the tank away from that end.
But I am not qualified to disagree with the two posters on Planetcatfish. Here is what they posted:
and
The change of appearance for the denisonii young I had already learned as you can see from one of my posts earlier in the thread. I guess my thinking was too much wishful thinking and I really wanting them to be clowns.
fishorama
Fish Addict
I think you should be thrilled with denisoni fry! Congrats on them!
Are there any fry down near the substrate? My hopes for clown babies are dimming
Are there any fry down near the substrate? My hopes for clown babies are dimming
OP
OP
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
They are all over. The divider and the large pebble sized gravel allows the fry a way in and out at the bottom only they can use, The space at the top may be 2 inches of open water. I have seen the fry use both routes. Early on a few ventured out into the main part of the tank using the under route. They have stayed there for the most part and they are in open water a lot and are now an inch or so TL. They use the beg wood and rock pile in the center of the tank as cover. The smallest clown enters the pile in another way. I think there are 45 of the babies living there now.
I see others crossing over now and then but there are a bunch still on the left side of the barrier. I have not been feeding them initially at all. I have seen them grazing the algae. Once in the main area they can scavenge flake, dissolved wafers/sticks and whatever is on the plants. I have been feeding the small fry-safe space with frozen rotifers. The problem with feeding that size is the spraybar output it in oit at the surface. Any food dropped on the surface will get blown into the main area fast.
I am now using one of my plastic 5 ml pipettes to squirt defrosted rotifers into the small area for the fry so it gose into the sand ablout 8 inches down and the squirt propels the food down ward. This gets it into the water, on any surface on which it settles and some gets sucked onto the foam wall off of which they can pick it.
There is no chance any of the fry are clowns. I think I have between 10 and 15. They are next to impossible to catch or I would have done so already and moved them into a smaller tank on their own. I do have and empty 10 and 20s (long or regular). I can have one planted and running in a day. I also have a 33, covered in frogbit, with only assassin snails and some pest snails as food for the assassins. It has several (4 I think) cycled Poret cubefilters. I can divide that easily anyway I want with a Poret foam sheet for that purpose.
I will not consider this to be a "true" spawn unless I can raise a bunch of them to look like they should in my water. This is my greatest fish asset. For those fish which would normally survive in my well water paaramter, do so and much more. There is a lot more to water parameters than for what we can test and likely which we will never spend wha it costs to have a lab do and in depth analysiss. When I comes the the Barbs, I almost never see them in other tanks or in posted pictures or vids where they are colored as much or as brightly as they get after a number of months in my water and tanks. I must be feeding them propery as well.
They are a fish I have always had in a display type tank. I know how hard they are to spawn in tanks. I did not try to have this happen and I do not believe I could have succeeded had I been doing so.
I see others crossing over now and then but there are a bunch still on the left side of the barrier. I have not been feeding them initially at all. I have seen them grazing the algae. Once in the main area they can scavenge flake, dissolved wafers/sticks and whatever is on the plants. I have been feeding the small fry-safe space with frozen rotifers. The problem with feeding that size is the spraybar output it in oit at the surface. Any food dropped on the surface will get blown into the main area fast.
I am now using one of my plastic 5 ml pipettes to squirt defrosted rotifers into the small area for the fry so it gose into the sand ablout 8 inches down and the squirt propels the food down ward. This gets it into the water, on any surface on which it settles and some gets sucked onto the foam wall off of which they can pick it.
There is no chance any of the fry are clowns. I think I have between 10 and 15. They are next to impossible to catch or I would have done so already and moved them into a smaller tank on their own. I do have and empty 10 and 20s (long or regular). I can have one planted and running in a day. I also have a 33, covered in frogbit, with only assassin snails and some pest snails as food for the assassins. It has several (4 I think) cycled Poret cubefilters. I can divide that easily anyway I want with a Poret foam sheet for that purpose.
I will not consider this to be a "true" spawn unless I can raise a bunch of them to look like they should in my water. This is my greatest fish asset. For those fish which would normally survive in my well water paaramter, do so and much more. There is a lot more to water parameters than for what we can test and likely which we will never spend wha it costs to have a lab do and in depth analysiss. When I comes the the Barbs, I almost never see them in other tanks or in posted pictures or vids where they are colored as much or as brightly as they get after a number of months in my water and tanks. I must be feeding them propery as well.
They are a fish I have always had in a display type tank. I know how hard they are to spawn in tanks. I did not try to have this happen and I do not believe I could have succeeded had I been doing so.
Denisoni are my favourite fish! I’m very excited to see this play out
OP
OP
TwoTankAmin
Fish Maniac
I worked on the tank today. I was overdue on a water change and filter maint. I did the semi-annual filter clean last maint. I had a bunch of soft red algae on the anubias leaves which I cleaned off. The filter media was particularly undirty today for some reason. I was expecting the opposite.
I also removed the big sheet of Poret 20 ppi foam you can see in he tank pic in an earlier post. All of the offspring are now out and about.They look too big for the denisonii already there to eat. I do not think the clowns have an interest. They do take frozen brine and mysis well before it hits the substrate, but fry are more agile and faster than dead food. I doubt the clowns can catch them in open water.
I was able to count 12 for sure and I would assume a few more were hiding. I will try for more pics soon.
I also removed the big sheet of Poret 20 ppi foam you can see in he tank pic in an earlier post. All of the offspring are now out and about.They look too big for the denisonii already there to eat. I do not think the clowns have an interest. They do take frozen brine and mysis well before it hits the substrate, but fry are more agile and faster than dead food. I doubt the clowns can catch them in open water.
I was able to count 12 for sure and I would assume a few more were hiding. I will try for more pics soon.
fishorama
Fish Addict
How big would you guess they are now?
I think you feed your fish so well they don't need to bother hunting fry
I think you feed your fish so well they don't need to bother hunting fry
Similar threads
Most reactions
-
489 -
318 -
209 -
191 -
150 -
148 -
108 -
102 -
100 -
94 -
87 -
87 -
F
86
-
83 -
82