Holy Moley- is it possible???????

[TwoTankAmin]

I am seeing more fry. I am thinking more have been hatching out. I am also seeing them venture farther away from where they hide. They are definitely curious. I have some of the Ebo finely powdered brine shimp which I am dropping into the tank above theri hifing place. I am hoping they will actually get some of it. The size is way to small for the other fish to even notice. But there is a problem in how I set up their clownn tank back when it was 75 gal. But I also see them graving the algae and biofilm in the rock pile.

What has me worrtied is I am not seeing the bigger fry I spotted initially, I am seeing more smaller ones. So I am wondering iif the forst hatchees are now hiding more or if they got eaten. All of this is very new to me and I feel very help;ess ias i cannot do anything to help [reserve the fry if they are being eaten. The fry hide if they are scared and I could never get a net near them. It is not possible to siphon them put either as the tank if big and very well planted with lots of vertical wood with anubias, It is also a deeper tank. The logistics are not conducive for spawning related activities on my part in terms of protecting them or catching them. I never imagined I would see clown fry in any of my tanks, so I did not prepare for that happening.

When I set up their first big tank, a 75, I chose as the substrate a larger rounded gravel. I should have done sand. But there was also an interesting side effect from my choice. The food can slip into the space between the larger rounded pebbles. You would think this would be a problem. if the fish cannot get the at this food it is a bad thng in terms of their eating. it can also be a problem of having uneaten food rotting just below the surface.

But the fish proved to be pretty smart. They learned to dig in the larger gravel by picking up individual stones and tossing them. This enabled them to get the food that sunk a bit lower into the substrate. They have now been doing this for over 22- years. Even more interesting is I had too many clowns early on as I was given 4 bigger ones because I got somebody about 20 free used and drilled tanks. So, one of my mentors in my early years agreed to take a couple of my clowns off my hands and I shipped them to him.

We hung out in the same forun which had a chat function. I went into the chat one day and this person got me into a private chat. He wanted to let me know that my clowns had taught his to pick up and throw stones around his tank. He was a bit annoyed. So much for wondering how smart some fish might be. First they figured out how to pick up and toss the stones and then that other fish learned how to do this as well speaks volumes on the subject of how some fish might be, imo.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Update-

Yesterday I almost finished doing maint. and a 50%+ water change on the tank, I say almost because I am getting ready to do the semi-annual on which I am late on the canister filter. But what I noticed last night and again this morning that the barbs were hanging out near where the baby clowns are and the smallest barb was even where I expected it would to go to eat them. I have also seen their numbers shrink and the sizes as well. This made me conclude that the eggs might not all hatch at the same time.

I was worried last night and moreso a couple of hours ago when I check the tank. I was halfway expecting not to see any fry. But there were some there as i watched for a bit. When I go to the part of the tank to watch closely it spooks the fish and they go to the other end. About a minute after this happened, saw fry coming out. This time I decided I needed to take action to protect them.

It this were a smaller and shallower tank I could have worked to siphon them out. But in this situation they would emerge from the other end of the siphon moving very fast and would likely be blown into the sides of any bucket hard enough tho kill or severely damage them. I needed to figure a way to divide the tank. I have eggcrate, but would have needed to cut it into a precise shape to make it fit properly. Fortunately I had a potential alternative.

Some time ago I wanted to be able to divide 40bs and a 50 gal which are both 18 inches wide (front to back) but different heights. I had bough a sheet of Poret foam 10 ppi and big enough to reach the edge of the top frame in the 50. To make it be able to be used in a 40B I slice a piece off of the top. That way it fit into the 40B, To use it in a the 50 I shaved down the piece I cut off into a strip which when placed on top odd the big sheet would fit properly in the 50B. I also save almost all the Poret scraps I get when cutting sheets to size or making pre-filters.

Using the above sheet and strip and then scraps I managed to create a barrier between the fry area and the rest of the tank, The biggest problem is that the spraybar return for the canister is in along the end where the fry are. I managed to create a slit sized gap at the tap of the divide to let flow though from the spraybar, but the rate on the outside of the barrier had clearly been reduced.

If I must, I can add an air stone in the the tank. But, the sheet dividing the fry area is only 10 ppi foam and the sheet is only 2 inches thick which should allow water to pass in either direction pretty easily. I know the fish cannot get above, around or under the foam dividier. Byt the fry muight be able to find a tiny way through. If they di I am not sure they could find their way back. Th rocks wirh algae and Aufwuchs are still available to the fry and I will add some food they can manage as well.

Hopefully this is tha path towards having some fry survive. I too picks of the set-up and will post them later.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Here are the promised pics of the division. The fry see, to like hanging out against the foam. And I still see one or ttwo ont the "wrong" side. When I try to catch them in a big fine mesh net the bolt. They either go bat into the ir area or else into the wood and rick plie in the moddle of the tank. I cleaned the filter which really needed it. I can see the flow now going through the foam and the gap at the top so I am less worried. I am thinking this should make the odds of having fry make it much better.

 

[anewbie]

If you get a chance see if you can get a good picture of them to identify species

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I did some searching and came up with a pic of of a redline barb on Seriouslyfish.com. The description reads:
"Juvenile colour pattern is considerably different to that of adults. © Curtis Ramsey"

Those vertical black stripes look like my fry. However, the head shape above is different. My problem is I am using my old Digicam. and geeting a decent pic is hard. The area is not bright and I cannot use a flash. If I brighten things up with more light it bothers them and they hide. My editing software is on my old Windows 7 box which I have to work to boot up now. I will see what I cand do to nake a better pic. I shot more but they are not great.

This is what Seriously Fish states in terms of the Reproduction of redlines:

Reproduction​

Large numbers are produced for the aquarium hobby in Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe, presumably via stimulation with hormones.

A 2011 study of its reproductive biology revealed that the sex ratio in wild fish appears skewed in favour of males and that absolute fecundity, i.e., the total number of eggs per female at a given point in time, is relatively low compared with some relatives such as Systomus sarana or Rasbora daniconius. Such factors, combined with habitat degradation via pollution or alteration, are likely to have an adverse effect on natural recruitment while affecting population dynamics and potentially leading to a reduced number of individuals in a given population.

In terms of private success at least one report of ‘accidental’ reproduction exists, in which a couple of fry were discovered hiding among plants during aquarium maintenance.

A more detailed report was published in the German magazine Aqualog in 2005. In this case a group of 15 adults spawned in soft, acidic water (gH 2-3/pH 5.7), depositing their eggs in a clump of Java moss (Taxiphylum barbieri). Apparently several of the adults exhibited a colour change with the dorsal surface becoming bluish, and the event appeared to be triggered by a gradual lowering of the pH via addition of driftwood.

Chester Zoo Aquarium in England have also reported successful breeding, and their theory is that a large group is needed as spawning is hypothesised to occur en masse.



All of the pics I have found of clown fry look fairly orange while mine do not show that. The problem is the clown fry pics are all shot from above and you cannot see their sides only their backs and eyes. But that shows a clearly orange coloration so I may not have clowns but then I do have redlines barbs. Now that I have them segregated and some should survive. I should know for sure what they are in a few months.

 

[anewbie]

Front the front fins they look more like loaches than barbs but maybe they change as they grow. I don't know how old they are but they look much more like mini clown loaches.

Yea I'm pretty sure they are loaches - have you tried looking at them with a magnifying glass ?

 

[MuddyWaters]

It is a poor image but it was the best I could do with my camera and not being able to get a really recent shot.

View attachment 375670

Sure looks like a Clown Loach to me!!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The tank is 18 inches front to back. The fry tend to stay away from the front and side has a black background taped well in place. There is maybe 6 inches of space open behind the tank. So I cannot use a magnifying glass as I cannot get close enough. I would love for it to be clowns but I would not be disappointed if it is the barbs. I am always excited by have new fry no matter what species they are.

I have now been keeping fish for 25 years. I still remember seeing the very first fry in my very first tank. They were swordtails and were why I had to get my second tank. That was the first time I did the happy fish dance. I am still doing it today. Well two days ago when I first spotted these fry. We lave little way of knowing how well we are caring for our fish and if they are truly healthy and will live a good long life. I have always felt that having healthy fry from most species is a good sign. The next good sign requires time. If the fish we keep tend to live longer, on average, than they are expected to do when living in a tank, that is another good clue.

I have had some fish for 20+ years. At least two of my original breeding zebra plecos bought in Apr. 2006 are still alive in one of fishorama's tanks. She was kind enough to provide them an old fish's home for their retirement so thay I did not have to dedicate a tank for them. Since I got them until today is about 19 years. As they were proven breeders when I got them. they had to be at least 3.5 - 4 years old and maybe even 5.

I have always credited my well water for a decent share of any success I have had with fish and their spawing and many living for a goodly amount. I tell foks that is must conatain a ntural fish aphrodisiac. I have also been good a doing the frunt work. Water changes, feeding good foods, having decent luck when medication was needed and using decent equipment properly maintained. I rarelly missed a week for a very long time. I did my part and tried not to do the sort of things that would prevent the fish from spawning something they naturally want to do.

 

[GaryE]

Having either spawn is unlikely, so it's a testament to how well run the tanks are. "Accidental" spawnings of difficult species aren't as accidental as the expression suggests. They reflect a good environment. You may not have set the tanks up as breeding tanks, but you have run them as decent habitats in which natural behaviours can happen. To me, there's no accident there.

I think this is a thread I want to see more of as the picture gets clearer. For now, we can speculate but raise those fry! It's hard to be patient sometimes...

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Not long after I put in the divide and left the opening at the top so the spraybar output could reach into the rest of the tank I discovered that some of the fry had used the opening at the top of the foam to venture into the rest of the tank. While O watched one go back in the same way i also spotted one fry in the middle of the tank and I assume it became lunch.

Years back when buying a lot of used equipment from a gent forced o leave the hobby due to back issues I got a sheet of very sturdy and very porous type of foam. It had no place in a filter but could used for other needs. I uses a chunk of it to set a big air pump on to help quiet it. So I hauled it out and cut a strip to use atop the Poret foam. It would allow water from the spray bar to easily pass through it bit not fish. I replaced the set-up atop the sheet of Poret with the strip of this material and it worked perfectly.

Where I had seen fry on the wrong side of the old set-up, this morning I could not spot any fry on the wrong side of the barrier and plenty on the protected side. They are still very small and take work to spot. I am feeding them a mix of finely ground brine shrimp and power from the Ebo veggie sticks that comes off them naturally in their jar from the sticks being jostled. Both foods are basically powder and perfect for fry and I import Both from Germany. This used to work well until somebody did away with the exemption for importing anything worth under $800. I usually buy few kilos once a year and am close to running out. I am not sure what I will do about this as the prices for this food in the states is pretty high. I use 7 or 8 different Ebo foods.

I may put some of the Repashy Spawn & Grow in to see if they eat it. Maybe I will coat a small stone with it and hope they nibble on it.

 

[anewbie]

Not long after I put in the divide and left the opening at the top so the spraybar output could reach into the rest of the tank I discovered that some of the fry had used the opening at the top of the foam to venture into the rest of the tank. While O watched one go back in the same way i also spotted one fry in the middle of the tank and I assume it became lunch.

Years back when buying a lot of used equipment from a gent forced o leave the hobby due to back issues I got a sheet of very sturdy and very porous type of foam. It had no place in a filter but could used for other needs. I uses a chunk of it to set a big air pump on to help quiet it. So I hauled it out and cut a strip to use atop the Poret foam. It would allow water from the spray bar to easily pass through it bit not fish. I replaced the set-up atop the sheet of Poret with the strip of this material and it worked perfectly.

Where I had seen fry on the wrong side of the old set-up, this morning I could not spot any fry on the wrong side of the barrier and plenty on the protected side. They are still very small and take work to spot. I am feeding them a mix of finely ground brine shrimp and power from the Ebo veggie sticks that comes off them naturally in their jar from the sticks being jostled. Both foods are basically powder and perfect for fry and I import Both from Germany. This used to work well until somebody did away with the exemption for importing anything worth under $800. I usually buy few kilos once a year and am close to running out. I am not sure what I will do about this as the prices for this food in the states is pretty high. I use 7 or 8 different Ebo foods.

I may put some of the Repashy Spawn & Grow in to see if they eat it. Maybe I will coat a small stone with it and hope they nibble on it.

Might be the perfect time to send a 'friend' to germany.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I was looking into the tank to check on the fry and I accidentally saw one of the older/larger ones which esxaped into the main part of the tank, It was using the big wood and rock pile in the centry of the tank as a place to hide. I watched it for a while and it mover to hide when one of the adult fish in the tank approached.

Before I walked away I spotted a second escapee in the area. I am happy that have survived but do not think I can rake that as a sign I can let the others out of their area. The fry still behind the barrier are clearly smalled than the ones outside of it. I am thinking the eggs may have been in the very big cave in the fry area and that they do not all hatch out at the same tine. So I am seeing some of the late hatchers which are smaller than the ones I first spotted ndd the escapees I spotted today.

One intersting ovservation happens when IO approch the tank. The fish always seem to spot me of my blur on thee glass. They will move away. If I am at one end of the tank they will all be in the other. If I am in the middle they will be at both ends. The fry tend to come out when it seems safe in term of nobody in the area and to hide when big fish approach.

When I go to check on the fry at the left end of the tank the fisj will stay away. When they do the fry come out and are less afraid of me. Since U ghade seen ine esxapee bolt into the wiidpike a day ot so age, I went to look there, The other fish left the area and as I was seraching out came a fry. I watched it for some time and ven flashlighted it to see if I could spot orange color starting. No such luck. As I went to leae a second one came into view.

This is all very new for me as any time I have wanted to have fry intentionally, I have either had a species only tank which was wsmaller or else I was able to pull the eggs as with corys. Here I cannot do this. So I am having to work in 6 foot tanks worrying about fry well under and inch.

 

[anewbie]

Well hopefully they will get large enough to make a positive species id. If they are clown loaches you should post any information you know on loaches.com (i.e, water paramters, if there were changes in temperature et all).

As i said the blurry picture you took really make them look like mini clowns but i know frys can change their shape as they grow.

After all how many folks who guess these are angle fishes:

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I thought I had successfully divided the fry from the rest of the tank, It turns out I was wrong. The problem is the larger size substrate. I thought I had the foam resting on the substrate. Instead there were decent gaps on the bottom. When I just went to check on the fry behid the foam instead of spotting several I saw only one. When I began to figure out why I discovered the gaps under the foam, I re-piled the gravel and the spaces are all filled. But I saw both bigger and smaller fry in the main part of the tank,

The better part of the news is that I spotted a couple of the earliest to hatch and therefore bigger fry and they appear to be getting the orange color of clowns. However, since at this size it could be wishful thinking on my part of what I saw was from refelctions off of the red river rock in the tank, So I am not prepared to say I have identified the species for sure.

I am using an older digicam as I do not use a smart phone which would take much better pictures. However, when I see one of the beiiger fry swimming in the main part of the tank is is both bigger and under better lighting.

I wish i could report the parameters that might have caused the spawn but I never check parameters in my tanks. I used to monitor the altum tank but I was altering parameters for them and I needed to stay on top of things. When I sold them to a new good home, i shelved the monitor.

The tanks has plenty of plants and had been running for over a decade. I have only lost fish in the tank due to old age. I am on my second stocking or the redline barbs. I bought the first ones as imports in Oct. 2016 at about 1.75 inches. The tank is well filtered has live plants and gets water changes pretty much weekly. I have had the two biggest clowns for over 20 years and they are the one which spawned if the fry are indeed baby clowns. If they last in the main part of the tank I would try to catch a few to segregate them into their own tanks to grow. But catching a small fry in a 125 gal. tanks will take a ton of luck. They may be small but the can still move pretty fast.

(edited to add the below)

I just reopened a gap at the bottom of the foam. I wend for a quick look before heading out on errands and I spotted 4 or 5 fry wanted to get back under the foam out of fear of the big clown being nearby. they could not and hid under a piece of wood. I opened the gap close to where the were hiding. Now they can return to the safety of their blocked of area.

 

[anewbie]

I thought I had successfully divided the fry from the rest of the tank, It turns out I was wrong. The problem is the larger size substrate. I thought I had the foam resting on the substrate. Instead there were decent gaps on the bottom. When I just went to check on the fry behid the foam instead of spotting several I saw only one. When I began to figure out why I discovered the gaps under the foam, I re-piled the gravel and the spaces are all filled. But I saw both bigger and smaller fry in the main part of the tank,

The better part of the news is that I spotted a couple of the earliest to hatch and therefore bigger fry and they appear to be getting the orange color of clowns. However, since at this size it could be wishful thinking on my part of what I saw was from refelctions off of the red river rock in the tank, So I am not prepared to say I have identified the species for sure.

I am using an older digicam as I do not use a smart phone which would take much better pictures. However, when I see one of the beiiger fry swimming in the main part of the tank is is both bigger and under better lighting.

I wish i could report the parameters that might have caused the spawn but I never check parameters in my tanks. I used to monitor the altum tank but I was altering parameters for them and I needed to stay on top of things. When I sold them to a new good home, i shelved the monitor.

The tanks has plenty of plants and had been running for over a decade. I have only lost fish in the tank due to old age. I am on my second stocking or the redline barbs. I bought the first ones as imports in Oct. 2016 at about 1.75 inches. The tank is well filtered has live plants and gets water changes pretty much weekly. I have had the two biggest clowns for over 20 years and they are the one which spawned if the fry are indeed baby clowns. If they last in the main part of the tank I would try to catch a few to segregate them into their own tanks to grow. But catching a small fry in a 125 gal. tanks will take a ton of luck. They may be small but the can still move pretty fast.

(edited to add the below)

I just reopened a gap at the bottom of the foam. I wend for a quick look before heading out on errands and I spotted 4 or 5 fry wanted to get back under the foam out of fear of the big clown being nearby. they could not and hid under a piece of wood. I opened the gap close to where the were hiding. Now they can return to the safety of their blocked of area.

Do the larger ones also look like clown loaches are could they be the barbs as you originally suggested.