High Nitrates

[hapihour]

My tank's about a week old and I'm planning to do my first water change because of high nitrate levels of around 100ppm (ammonia 0, no2 at .09). It's been that way for the past 4 days. However, when I tested the water I was gonna replace it with, the nitrate levels are just as high. What do I do? Do I change the water anyway?

All my saltwater (in the tank and the replacement water) was purchased at the LFS and I think came directly from the sea.

I'm also wondering whether or not I'm done with the cycling process yet. I've speeded it up by cycling with fish, live rock, and higher water temperature. Perhaps I should just wait and see....?

 

[SlowSwim]

You need to be doing a Anual water change once a week anyway.. proberli 10%-20%.

Keep doing it till your nitrates come down. Your cycle doesnt happen without water changes..
Unless you wanna breed algea.

 

[@ombomb]

You need to be doing a Anual water change once a week anyway.

....that would be a weekly change.

Annual would be once a year!

 

[hapihour]

Ok will do! Thanks for the tip guys! Weekly water changes it is!

 

[SkiFletch]

My tank's about a week old and I'm planning to do my first water change because of high nitrate levels of around 100ppm (ammonia 0, no2 at .09). It's been that way for the past 4 days. However, when I tested the water I was gonna replace it with, the nitrate levels are just as high. What do I do? Do I change the water anyway?

All my saltwater (in the tank and the replacement water) was purchased at the LFS and I think came directly from the sea.

I'm also wondering whether or not I'm done with the cycling process yet. I've speeded it up by cycling with fish, live rock, and higher water temperature. Perhaps I should just wait and see....?

100ppm nitrates!!!!!! Thats crazy . One of two things is happening here... Either your test kit is bad/incorrect, or your LFS is using tapwater when mixing. Either of which is very bad. Bring a sample to your LFS or someone else near you and have them test the water and see what they get. If your LFS is selling you pre-mixed saltwater with 100ppm of nitrates, thank them for ripping you off and dont take your business there ever again. That high level of chemicals is highly unhealthy and not reccomneded by anybody

 

[Navarre]

IF the water you change with has high nitrates then you simply will be adding to the problem. Add alot more liverock to help deal with the problem and use good quality RO water for you water changes.

 

[hapihour]

I just did a 20% water change using new water from a new LFS. Hopefully my nitrate situation will improve soon.

Will try to get more live rock and maybe some plants to further bring down the nitrates.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Navarre]

Macro algae is good for nutrient extractoin but be careful what type you get. Some species can completely overpower your display tank This is why many peeople keep it isafely locked away in a sump.

 

[pleder]

Good species of macro's IME have been red grape and prolifera, both which are aestitcally pleasing as well.

I have also had good results from Seachem's denitrate product. IME most LR will not help with nitrates because it lacks the anerobic bacteria.

 

[hapihour]

Thank you all for your suggestions Unfortunately I couldn't find any algae or saltwater plants in my LFS. I will keep looking though!

Just an update....

Did a 100% water change today...Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, and NITRATE 10ppm. Whew! Unfornutately, one of my damsels and one of my beautiful corals died before I could do it. Oh well, live and learn.

Question....since i did a 100% water change, does my tank undergo the entire nitrogen cycle again? And how can I make sure that my nitrates don't shoot up again like before?

 

[Navarre]

As long as you have liverock then you should not need to recycle as the bacteria is living deep within the rock rather than in the water.

I must admit i am slightly concerned about the 10 Nitrates even with the water change (it should have hbeen 0 )

I strongly suggest you use RO water or you wil have a huge battle with hair algae in the months ahead.

 

[hapihour]

Ok will do with my next water change....OR, if i ever have to do another 100% water change...knock on wood

Thanks!

 

[andywg]

Good species of macro's IME have been red grape and prolifera, both which are aestitcally pleasing as well.

I have also had good results from Seachem's denitrate product. IME most LR will not help with nitrates because it lacks the anerobic bacteria.

I know you have put from your experience, but that goes against every piece of information I have read on Live Rock, and to show that it is not the generally held view I present the below:

From this good article:

http/www2.hawaii.edu/~delbeek/homerf1.html

The use of live rock immediately introduces into the aquarium numerous
algae, bacteria and small invertebrates all of which contribute to the
overall quality of the aquarium water. Live rock has just as much, if
not more, surface area for bacteria than a trickle filter. Since live
rock in the aquarium contains various types of bacteria, algae and
corals, waste products such as ammonia, nitrate and phosphate can have
a number of fates. Ammonia, nitrate and phosphate are readily
assimilated by algae and photosynthetic corals growing on and in the
rock. Ammonia can also be quickly converted into nitrate by the
bacteria on and in the rock. This nitrate can be either absorbed by
the algae and corals, or it can be denitrified by bacteria in close
proximity to the nitrate producing bacteria.

And from this article dedicated to nitrate:

http/www.waterzoo.co.uk/Fact%20sheets/Co...g%20nitrate.htm

Live rock is widely used by aquarists maintaining reef aquariums. Due to it’s porous internal structure areas with very little water movement & oxygen develop. This makes the live rock work at removing nitrate in a similar but less controlled way to a nitrate reactor. Therefore large amounts of live rock can assist in reducing nitrate accumulation.

I'm not flaming or anything, just showing that the generally acknowledged view is that the porous nature of live rock does create anaerobic and anoxic conditions beneficial to the growth of nitrifying bacteria

 

[pleder]

Yes the algaes that is present on the liverock will use up nitrates. I do not believe that most of the rock that is commonly found in the U.S. has the presence of anerobic bacteria. I have found this to be the case by breaking open pieces of liverock and examining them under a microscope. The only types of liverock that I have found to contain the anerobic bacterias are rocks that were shipped to the wholesalers with live corals growing on them. IME rock that was placed into the aquarium as base rock or dead rock grew no anerboic bacteria after the course of 3 years. It is my belief that the mannor in which liverock is imported into the United States is the cause for much of this degeneration of the anerboic bactria regions of the rock. I understand that this does not necessarily hold true on your side of the pond.

Currently I am experimenting with dead rock by burying it in a DSB to see if the surrounding anerobic regions will allow the dead rock to be seeded with anerobic bacteria.

I understand that general consensus has it's place in the world, but I am not personally fond of it. At one time general consensus told us that the Earth was flat and that the brain was a useless organ. Things change. 30 years ago this hobby was all about UGF's and large tropical fish like Tangs and Triggers. Things have changed. Now many people run there tanks not even using a protein skimmer, did you ever think you would see the day?

I agree liverock is helpful and very beneficial to a system. It does contain many helpful elements including bacterias that participate in the nitrogen cycle. It is my view point that with the way many of us keep our systems that the rock is not enough to remove all of the nitrates that accumulate in our home aquariums. If it was, then we would never have to do WC's right?

IME the only way to completely remove nitrates besides constant water changes is by using various filters and macro algaes. I do not have a DSB, but I imagine a healthy DSB would also be a useful tool. JMO.

If you do a search on the topic you will find we discussed it all in great length about a month ago. Thank you for your articles. I always love to read new stuff.

Edit for typo

 

[andywg]

If you lose the anaerobic (though I seem to recall it is more correctly described as anoxic) bacteria then it will take a long time to regrow. It is an extremely slow reproducing strain of bacteria.

In the time it takes a Nitrosmonas bacterium to double in population (split into two) a single E. coli cell would have developed into 35 trillion cells.

Therefore, if you lose the bacteria in transit you will have problems. This is the most likely cause of your problems, as the porous nature of the liverock will still allow anoxic zones to exist. This is also why home made Live Rock will serve the same function. I find it hard to believe that people would pay £12 per kilo of LR and find it does nothing more thanlava rock at £3 per gallon.

The better test would be to take cured live rock and put it in a tank. In an identical sized tank put a similar quantity of "control" rock (tuffa rock, lava rock, even bioballs) and see which tank has the nitrates rise the fastest. It would not be a perfect test, but should give a fair indication (especially as there appears to be no peer reviewed articles that mention anything about the nitrate reduction capabilities of LR).

The more porous the rock, the greater the ability for it to harbour the anoxic conditions necessary, therefore if you have a very dense piece of live rock it will not aid greatly with filtration which is why the 1lb per gallon is truthfully about as accurate as the 1" per US gallon rule in FW.