Hi Help Wanted **updated 30.01.09**

[nuttyJD]

Hi,

My son had the exact tank/filter/kit that you have and we had the same problem with the filter (his tank is also kept in his bedroom). Within the first couple of weeks his three neons got stuck down the back of the filter and two of his leopard danios did the same!! I wasn't happy with the way the filter wasn't doing it's job properly (it seems to get gunked up very easily!!) so I bought him a Fluval 2+. The Fluval runs quieter than the stingray so he doesn't even hear it when his in bed (and he's a very light slepper!!)

I hope this helps a little bit with your problem
Leanne

 

[Fisses]

have you a link for the fluval?

i love my stingray because its so quiet, but i dont think its quite up to the job.

I'd like to get a better filter but not one that ive seen which drops the water onto the surface, with it being in my bedroom i want it as quite as possible

thanks in advance

 

[rabbut]

Ebay is your best bet for the Fluval internal

If there was ammonia and or nitrite in the water, it was not "OK". They should be zero at all times, and if they are not, they will caurse issues given time Rather than just letting the shop say it's OK, it is best to ask them to write down numbers for you

All the best
Rabbut

 

[nuttyJD]

Hi,

The Fluval doesn't drop the water onto the surface......it does the same as the stingray but it actually works!! Have a look at eBay they usually have loads of Fluval (2+) on there, there's also the new Fluval that's just come out called the U series which had a really good write up in this months PFK.

Also try giving your LFS a ring to see if they stock them, I think the 2+ is about £15-£17 so it's not that expensive.

Hope this helps,
Leanne

 

[Fisses]

rabbut, when they did the tests they was spot on, she left it 5 minutes and the ammonia dropper 1 shade of colour so she said its due a water change which it i knew anyway which is why she said it was ok.

nuttyjd, what is the difference between the u series and fluval 2 plus? as long as its a silent underwater filter and nothing too big in size i'd prefer to go for the best one for reducing ammonia and bits in the tank

many thanks in advance

 

[Miss Wiggle]

there's no reading for ammonia that most people on this forum would consider 'ok but due a water change' to be honest with you. the advice you've got from the fish shop is terrible.

any level of ammonia in the water is toxic to fish so this level should always be at 0, if it's anything other than 0 then this is not OK even 0.1 is bad news.

there was clearly a reading of ammonia because she said due a water change, however any reading needs more remedial action than just 1 water change.

we really need you to get some actual numbers from a decent liqud based test kit for us to be able to assess your situation and help you out of it. until you get them it's safest to assume the worst so you should be doing large daily water changes until you can get this and we can then start sorting this all out with you.

 

[Fisses]

cheers miss wiggle.

i just dont under stand whats going on though. im doing a 50% water change every week, i only have 10 fish now with a live plant on some bogwood, stingray 15 filter which is cleaned(in a bucket of aquarium water) one a month and a heater which keeps the temp roughly around 35 degrees (oh and a handful of snails im trying to keep down to a bare minimum through crushing then the fish eat them when i drop them in the water).

do you think it could be the filter not doing its job?

im really confused

 

[Miss Wiggle]

The tank is probably not cycled properly, test results will confirm/deny this.

 

[Fisses]

i've had the tank probably nearly 3 months now though

and i had the tank empty for almost 2 weeks with a live plant in, it went a little cloudy then went ok at which point i added fish and like i say, the only 1's which died from a weird reason is the 2 catfish(others died from filter problems).

 

[waterdrop]

How recently did this period of 2 weeks without fish occur? Two weeks without fish would be long enough for a very significant, if not entire, die off of all the necessary filter bacteria, leaving the filter uncycled and the tank not fit for fish.

I think MW has got you going on the correct information. One way or another this tank is not cycled and you've not been privy to the correct information about good testing and how to interpret that good testing. She'll get you straight.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

healthy fish won't be sucked into a filter, the fact that they got close enough to get mangled is a sign that they were dying/unwell anyway most likely

as you did a fish-in cycle this puts the fish at risk from ammonia and nitrite, these can cause permanent damage so even once the cycle is done they'll sometimes die out of the blue.

even after a couple of months a fish-in cycle can still be lingering on. i may be wrong and i'm happy to concede when you provide test results, but i think the most likely conclusion is that there is some ammonia or nitrite in the tank still and this is killing your fish.

I think the two weeks was at the start, in the usual bad fish shop advice on how to cycle type of way.

 

[rabbut]

healthy fish won't be sucked into a filter, the fact that they got close enough to get mangled is a sign that they were dying/unwell anyway most likely

as you did a fish-in cycle this puts the fish at risk from ammonia and nitrite, these can cause permanent damage so even once the cycle is done they'll sometimes die out of the blue.

even after a couple of months a fish-in cycle can still be lingering on. i may be wrong and i'm happy to concede when you provide test results, but i think the most likely conclusion is that there is some ammonia or nitrite in the tank still and this is killing your fish.

I think the two weeks was at the start, in the usual bad fish shop advice on how to cycle type of way.

Hear hear

We need to see test results to realy appreciate what's going on. The stingray filters are rubbish, and their very design stops them from cycling, as they all (as far as I'm aware) contain ZEOLITE...

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Fisses]

im completely lost, i thought zeolite got rid of ammoia

the 2 weeks without fish was when i first got the tank, it went cloudy, and then back to normal again.

i then proceeded to buy 5 black neon tetra, to which all have survived until 1 vanished the other day not to be seen again

surely if it went all cloudy and back to normal again thats the cycle?

 

[rabbut]

Right, the Zeolite does remove Ammonia, untill it gets saturated. The fact there is Ammonia in there tells you the Zeolite is now saturated. The Ammonia however would not be there if the tank was cycled. The Zeolite has starved the filter bacteria and prevented the cycle, and hence you are reliant on the Zeolite for Ammonia removal

Cycling is the building up of two species of filter bacteria, that are Autotrophic (like oxygen and need it to live). The bacteria that caurses cloudyness are Hetrotrophic (Can live with or without oxygen and can choose food sources more readily in the ones we are looking at), and hence not true filter bacteria. They help, as they break down solid waste into Ammonia and other things for removal by the propper filter bacteria They can remove some Ammonia, but they are less efficient that the propper filter bacteria

The cycle cannot start untill there is sufficient Ammonia in there to sustain the growth of your filter bacteria. This can only happen if no chemical filter media are remove the Ammonia first (as in your case) and there is an acctuall source of Ammonia (fish, fish food or bottled ammonia e.t.c) in the tank.

All the best
Rabbut

 

[beta]

im completely lost, i thought zeolite got rid of ammoia

the 2 weeks without fish was when i first got the tank, it went cloudy, and then back to normal again.

i then proceeded to buy 5 black neon tetra, to which all have survived until 1 vanished the other day not to be seen again

surely if it went all cloudy and back to normal again thats the cycle?

"bangs head on wall"

in laymans terms
get rid of either the sting ray or just the zeolite (obviously buy new filter if u get rid of stingray)
buy a proper test kit
change water regualy
follow miss wiggles link for what is cycleing